[lbo-talk] cybertarians for Jesus

C. G. Estabrook galliher at alexia.lis.uiuc.edu
Fri Nov 19 10:43:18 PST 2004


"Massacring its enemies" is a bit strong. Augustine (d. 430 CE) did say that the state had a role in providing public order in disputes that had a religious dimension (notably Donatism), but he opposed state torture and capital punishment. States he thought were usually "latrocinia" -- gangs of thieves. In his City of God (4.4), he wrote

"Without justice, what are states but great gangs of thieves? What are gangs of thieves, but little states? A gang is a group under the command of a leader, bound together by contract, in which plunder is divided as agreed. If such a conspiracy grows by drawing from the disaffected so that it acquires territory, establishes a base, captures cities and subdues peoples, it then openly arrogates to itself the title of a state, which is how the world regards it -- not because it has renounced aggression but because because its achieved impunity. It was both witty and true for the captured pirate to say to Alexander the Great, when the king asked him why he terrorized the sea, 'For the same reason that you terrorize the earth -- but because I do it with a little ship, I'm called a pirate; because you have a great navy, you're called an emperor.'"

--CGE

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, joanna bujes wrote:


> Nothing surprising about this. As the Roman empire crumbled, would-be
> administrators and officials, were "reborn" into the Xtian church.
> Augustine was bred/educated to become a Roman administrator -- he wound
> up laying the foundations for the Catholic church and massacring its
> enemies.
>
> We are now seeing Jesus in integrated circuits. Whatever. Folly and
> self-delusion are not mitigated by technical "progress." (I am not
> arguing that all forms of religious consciousness are forms of folly and
> self-delusion. But most are excellent covers for these.)
>
> Joanna
>
> Eubulides wrote:
>
> >washingtonpost.com
> >Prayer Breakfast Draws Strong Tech Turnout
> >By Shannon Henry
> >Thursday, November 18, 2004; Page E01
> >
> >



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