--- james at communistbanker.com wrote:
> When some one suffers injury and the way is open for
> them to sue, good
> luck to them. Legal recourse is, as Michael
> suggests, a form of
> 'self-defence'. And I too am suspicious of the tort
> reform agenda.
>
> But the ideas that Michael calls 'pie in the sky'
> are just sound
> common sense. Even the most blinkered rational
> choice economist
> should see that a minimal level of public insurance
> makes good
> financial sense when measured against the costs of
> law suits. It's
> a desparate ideological ploy to oppose this.
>
> So why are you being so defensive about this agenda?
> The danger that
> I see is that people get so caught up in opposing
> right wing plots
> and defending fairly marginal advantages that the
> agenda that is
> really worth fighting for gets lost in a mire of
> pragmatism.
>
> The ill-effects of litigation are really
> significant. They stifle
> innovation and warp professionalism. They are a
> drain on society's
> resources. They formalise human relations. The
> fact that some poor
> people get justified recompense through law is no
> reason to ignore
> all of this. Just because the right supports tort
> reform is no
> reason for the left to support the status quo. The
> mainstream agenda
> is there to be challenged.
>
> James Greenstein
>
>
> --- "Michael Dawson" <mdawson at pdx.edu> wrote:
>
> From: "Michael Dawson" <mdawson at pdx.edu>
> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:01:12 -0800
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Excessive Lawsuits, Gay
> Rights, Tort Reform,
> and the Incredibles
>
> None of which makes so-called "tort reform" a decent
> idea. What you're
> talking about would require lavishly-funded national
> health insurance and
> accompanying publicly-set doctor salaries. Neither
> of those items is
> anywhere near the mainstream political agenda in
> this country. So, the
> "even larger context" is pie-in-the-sky, barring the
> emergence of a new mass
> movement for economic justice -- also pretty much
> pie-in-the-sky here.
>
> "Tort reform," meanwhile would simply transfer
> needed damage compensation
> from ordinary people to doctors and insurance
> companies. It's an atrocious
> right-wing plot.
>
> Justin is right. Resisting "tort reform" is an
> important aspect of
> self-defense.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org
> [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of james at communistbanker.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 9:37 AM> I think
Justin is missing the even larger context.
> . . . civilized
> societies should provide resources in relation to
> need, not in relation
> to another's negligence. . . . The political
motivation for tort reform, the
> political orientation
> of the lawyers, and indeed Justin's profession, are
> irrelevant to the
> wider question of how best to deal with the
> questions of punishing
> the negligent and compensating victims.
I wasn't addressing the wider question of dealing with the costs of accidents -- just whether "excessive litigation" talk is part of a right wing agenda, which it is. I agree that med mal suits and punitive daamges are no substitute for national health.
My torts prof nearly fell over when, discussing who should bear the cost of accidents he listed: (1) the victim or the (2) perpertrator, and I said, (3) In most countries it's society at large through national health.
Nonetheless, we ain't got national health and we do got, still, to some degree, the right to recover damages. We should defend it while arguing for national health. Which we are not going to get -- not even when the boomers start dying, literally, in the streets. Sorry, Cholly. You should have saved $5 million while you were young. Or $10 million, or whatever.
Btw, in case it wasn't quite clear, I have no material interest in opposing tort reform. Maybe the reverse. I don't practice that sort of law in the first place and in the second place I am a black hat lawyer who works for corporations.
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