[lbo-talk] Re: antidemocratic

[Joseph Wanzala]

Doug's 'example' of Bernstein saying D'Amato 'runs the world' is patently 
false and ridiculous and it is amazing that anyone would repeat it and 
accept it at face value without checking the fact. The depth of hypocrisy 
and double standard of the anti-conspiracy theory brigade is astounding. You 
guys go on about the "overestima[tion of] the ability of those in power to 
control events" when there are many well known examples of those in power 
doing just that - but these are not viewed as 'conspiracy theory'. That Jeb 
Bush and the Republican Party machinery (those in power) deployed their 
power and influence to impac the 2000 election is not viewed as a conspiracy 
theory,. That 'those - with access to - power' used their influence to 
determine the Supreme Court's 'selection' of George Bush as Pres. is not 
viewed as a 'conspiracy theory', that the Republican Party and its friends 
at Diebold may indeed manipualte the vote in the upcoming election is not 
viewed as conspiracy theory - that 19 Arabs who barely knew how to fly 
simulators allegedly evaded the Unted States' awesome security apparatus 
without any inside help, to carry out their attacks - coordinated from a 
cave in Afghanistan is not viewed as a 'conspiracy theory'.

As to the Robert Scheer report - Doug, you act as though you have seen the 
report in question and know what is says. The idea that they simply 'fucked 
up' is presuming knowledge of what the report says. If people fucked up, why 
has no one been fired. Furthermore, what does 'fucked up' mean exactly - 
does that mean simply sleeping at your desk, does that include providing 
critical intelligence information to the 'enemy' - we already know from 
testimony or statements by Indira Singh and Sibel Edmonds that whatever 
secrets are held by the CIA and FBI about 9-11 are not simply matters of 
people having fucked up but are matters of at the very least serious 
criminal behavior and subterfuge, involving drug smuggling and money 
laundering that implicated people within the banking and national security 
establishment.

Doug and Co. go on about how things are really more complicated than 
'conspiracy theorists' will allow and then shy away from oloking at these 
very same complaxities. Anybosy who wades into 9-11 research will quickly 
realize that one is dealing with a very, very, complex array of people, 
institutions, countries and dynamics. Other than regurtitating the official 
conspiracy theory about 9-11, I never see Doug & Co. taking an open minded 
look at the complxities of 9-11 or the war on terror for that matter. Here 
is a telling exerpt from a recent interview with former FBI translator and 
non-conspiracist Sibel Edmonds:

http://baltimorechronicle.com/050704SibelEdmonds.shtml

"Sibel Edmonds: The most significant information that we were receiving did 
not come from counter-terrorism investigations, and I want to emphasize 
this. It came from counter-intelligence, and certain criminal 
investigations, and issues that have to do with money laundering operations.

You get to a point where it gets very complex, where you have money 
laundering activities, drug related activities, and terrorist support 
activities converging at certain points and becoming one. In certain points 
- and they [the intelligence community] are separating those portions from 
just the terrorist activities. And, as I said, they are citing "foreign 
relations" which is not the case, because we are not talking about only 
governmental levels. And I keep underlining semi-legit organizations and 
following the money. When you do that the picture gets grim. It gets really 
ugly."


>From: martin <mschiller at pobox.com>
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Re: antidemocratic
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:01:04 -0700
>
>Probably much easier to attribute climate change to disruption of the 
>magnetic flow of the earths crust due to underground nuclear tests - rather 
>than attributing underground testing to a concern for the environment by 
>the AEC.
>
>Martin
>
>
>On Oct 20, 2004, at 2:13 PM, Turbulo at aol.com wrote:
>
>>The tendency of conspiracy theorists to overestimate the ability of those 
>>in power to control events (in Doug's example, Al D'Amato) is similar, I 
>>think, to the religious impulse. Isn't it easier to understand crop 
>>failure by attributing it to a wrathful god than to study climatic 
>>conditions?
>
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