| << wouldn't bet my house on internal AFL-CIO data, gregory. >>
|
| These data, I would. I heard it at a no-bullshit pre-election
| strategy meeting. The folks presenting the data were all but
| apologizing for the dumb white guys.
|
| All demographic elements held equal, union members are well to the
| left of their non-union analogs in the general population. The
| problem isn't internal union political consciousness. It's the decline of
union membership as a whole. The attack on labor pushes
| the country as a whole to the right.
|
| Republicans are being smart when they set out to destroy organized
| labor.
|
| Sorry, I tend to see all this as obvious.
that's all right. it's obviously not what i expected. since i don't believe union "leadership" has any sense, and i believe it is bureaucratic, CEO style self-serving opportunism of the worst sort, i can't follow that its strategy meetings are worthwhile. that's more or less obvious to me.
|
| << while we're on the subject of democrat support for labor, >>
|
| I wasn't. I was on the subject of union support for Democrats.
the thread is on this subject. that's what nathan newman was bragging about. we can write about both things don't you think?
|
| << i wonder what the democrats plan to do about ... >>
|
| Making predictions about how professional politicians will act on
| matters of "principle" is usually pretty useless, in my view. One
| would expect that how Democrats act with respect to labor will
| reflect the power of organized labor.
the court's ruling is not just an organize labor issue. its an issue for all working people. for all americans
organized labor is, as usual, out of the loop when it comes to protecting its membership.
it's not a matter of principle for professional politicians in a literal sense. what it's a matter of is seeing whether or not democrats will back up the kind of loose rhetoric apologists like nathan newman like to spread about how the democratic party supports unions. we'll see if the dems take this obvious opportunity to support workers or if it punts, as it usually does, in favor of corporate interests, just as the republicans do.
the latter course of conduct would be obvious to me. let's see.
|
| Again, sorry, but obvious to me.
|
| It also reflects the power of the Republicans; their take-no-
| prisoners approach gives Dems little choice. (As it does for
| labor. The old labor gambit of backing a Republican who will do
| what you want is dead, dead, dead.)
really? clearly the republicans give organized labor no choice, for when it had a choice, organized labor took the bait and screwed itself -- just like voters who vote republican due to wedge and "values" issues rather than their own best interests screw themselves. i'm glad to see the republicans now treat organized labor for what it is, useless, and something the system can generally walk over with impunity. i hope organized labor can take a hint because i'd like to see it regroup and regain some clout. that's my fantasy. one place membership could start is to get rid of the shirts running the unions.
|Believe it or not, the Dems
| may actually begin to realize that they can't forever keep
| screwing their closest allies.
you know what, gregory? i'd really like to believe it. but i don't. i see absolutely no signs whatsoever that there's any possibility of this happening. i've not seen any signs from the dems of this happening for years. i think we're looking at a democratic party that is too far gone to turn back. it's republican lite now. and there's no place in the two party system for organized labor to turn.
|Have they reached that point? Maybe
| not.
never
|Will they?
never. organized labor no longer has the clout, membership and can't deliver the votes. the bottom line is votes.
|Maybe too many of them are as dumb as they seem. But I generally give US
politicians high marks for |sniffing out
| political reality. Desperation should help, too.
the desperate are organized labor. it's of no use to US politicians. US politicians aren't as "dumb as they seem." that's why they don't much bother with organized labor, particularly after the election. oh, the dems pay lip service to get the money organized labor has to spend. but that's what they want, not commitment on the politicians' part. the dems -- is it obvious dems are what you mean by "US politicians"? -- will throw organized labor a crumb to keep the dem party faux image plausible. but when push comes to shove, don't expect dems, or any US politicians, to stand on "principle" at the side of labor. our political system is corporate, just as the bulk of union leadership is.
the politicians who've sniffed out political reality are busy garnering big bucks from corporate interests. their asses are covered. they won't take any risks for the country or for its people. count on it.
|
| There is no Eternal Democrat. They exist in history. Really.
really? now, i've never thought of that "eternal democrat" thing.
R
|
| ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
| From: "R" <rhisiart at charter.net>
| Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
| Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:31:58 -0700
|
| >
| >----- Original Message -----
| >From: "Gregory Geboski" <greg at mail.unionwebservices.com>
| >To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
| >Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 8:50 PM
| >Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Virtually all Dems support Card Check Bill
| ...
|
|
|
|
| ________________________________________________________________
|
|
|
| ___________________________________
| http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
|