> > I think his point is that in any case, you're still advocating one
> > product over another, as if choosing firefox (or...fill in the blank)
> > will create a better--as in socially just-- world. hardly. might make
> > life more bearable in terms of the effects of malware, but that's it.
> > it's still consuming and, we've had this discussion before, open
> > source is often parasitic on capital anyway.
> >
>
>
>but we have to consume to survive, no? what is wrong with advocating one
>product (and the underlying methods of "production") over another?
so, you're claiming that open source is actually some neophyte alternative economic system that will turn capitalism on its head?
I think it's important to flesh this out. I mean, if that much is at stake...What's more, it can be done; i've seen it before. What I mean is, if you really want to speak to leftists who are Marxists and Heavy Users of Marx, then you would need to explain why Marx's theory of how capitalism will be undone (cf., my recent discussion with Michael D.) is wrong-headed, and show how your theory, however inchoate it is in present form, is an advance.
Just waving your hand at the _appearance_ of a supposed alternative system of production -- and was it purposeful or accidental that you choose _method_ instead of _mode_? I mean, if you're going to appeal to that rhetoric, I'd want some meat on the bones.
As for Carrol, it is very obvious that Carrol follows a strand of Marxist thinking that says that people's consciousness changes through _political praxis_. It is collective, political struggle. There is _nothing_ about using Mozilla that brings me together with others in meaningful collective, _political_ or even quasi-political struggle.
I agree with him in many ways. Where we part is how broadly we define political practice. Now, as willing as I am to get really flabby with the definition (to possibly include e-mail lists like this or even, as much as I mocked it for fun, Chuck0's wiki, I just can't see even open source developers as anywhere _near_ engaged in anything resembling collective social struggle. There may be a few among them--such as yourself. But what you have to demonstrate (not necessarily empiracally) is that such activities are changing consciousness. I've frequently outlined how political struggles I've been involved in or just lived through and observed have actually changed people consciousness that had a material impact on how they lived their lives _and_ the degree to which public discourse shifted to the left in even a miniscule way.
>k
"We live under the Confederacy. We're a podunk bunch of swaggering pious hicks."
--Bruce Sterling