--- John Bizwas <bizwas at lycos.com> wrote:
>
> Sure, the federal government has 'intervened'
> repeatedly in state affairs that many in the states
> feel are constitutionally given to the states. I
> just wish some states would interfere in the federal
> government on foreign policy. My point--hadn't you
> noticed--was it might not have seemed like a fair
> settlement for the Ingush, or make the N. Ossetians
> innocents in the eyes of the displaced.
No argument. I find it hard to imagine
>
> Really? That seems to be a lot of what you cite in
> reporting about Russia.
Actually I normally cite Interfax, the Moscow Times, the Moscow News and the eXile. I was unaware that they were part of the Western media. Should I link to Komsomolskaya Pravda or Izvestia or Argumenty i Fakty? That wouldn't be terribly useful for people who don't know the Russian language now would it?
In fact that seems to be
> your raison d'etre on the list, to address how
> ignorant we poor westerners are about Putin's
> Russia.
Not knowing who Nukhayev is is pretty ignorant. He's kind of an important fellow.
>
> I'm sure even the 30,000 - 80,000 dead are citizens
> of the Russian Federation. I'm not arguing for
> proliferating ethnic rights to self-determination.
> However, there could be other ways of pursuing
> subsidiarity and local autonomy than what we've seen
> from Yeltsin and now Putin.
Which region do you have in mind? Russia's ethnic regions have enormous autonomy. Tatarstan is completely different from Dagestan, which is completely different from Bashkortostan, which is different from Chuvashia etc. In fact Chechnya has always had full autonomy within the Russian Federation and has it now. That is not what the fighters are fighting for. Maskhadov is fighting because he wants to be president of Chechnya. Basayev is fighting because he wants a Taliban-style state throughout the Caucasus, and not just in Chechnya. He has said this clearly many times. You don't seem to mention it though.
There is _one_ region that wanted full independence and obtained it de facto. That region was Chechnya. That didn't work out too well, what with the Chechen hostage/slave trade and the attacks on Dagestan, which you also don't mention. Guess what? More people fled Chechnya from 1996-1999 than in the First Chechen War. That was one inspiring example of independence! And once again -- this is not a war for independence!
By proxies I mean people
> hired to operate outside the law, so I don't really
> get the point about RF citizenship.
Who exactly is Russia hiring to operate outside the law? I want some names, dates and places please.
Then there is the ethnic diversity. And then
> there is the ethnically based moves to break away
> from the center in some form.
Guess what again? None of these ethnic groups wants to break away from the center! Not even most Chechens want to break away from the center. Most people are happy with the situation as it is in their broadly autonomous ethnic republics, getting financed by the center people seem to think they want to break away from. I realize you think people in the Caucasus are all ignorant barbarian tribespeople who can't get along with each other and want to live in little thatch huts without the electricity they get from Moscow, but it just ain't so.
Anyway, by proxies I
> meant the use of force outside of law, but I'll bet
> you always think guys like Putin obey the law
> because they make the law.
Nobody in Russia obeys the law. Russia does not have laws.
>
> Wait, you said they were all Russians, so it's
> Russians training Russians, isn't it?
Evidence that they were "proxies," please.
Well, get the
> irony in that. OBL didn't take credit and he's
> guilty, this guy takes credit and he's guilty. Being
> guilty is in season I guess, though some guilt just
> lacks credibility.
Basayev has no credibility? You know, Basayev, that guy who is, hmm, you know, Wahabbi? Wait no, I see it -- BASAYEV IS THE PROXY! Basayev is an FSB agent. Just like Ben Laden is a CIA hireling, and Bush planned 9/11. There actually are no Wahabbis in the world at all! It is all a great plan cooked up by evil Washington and Moscow. There are no Wahabbis in Iraq either -- that's all a myth. All the people kidnapped and all the stuff getting blown up is organized by a joint operation of the FSB, CIA and, of course, the Mossad.
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