[lbo-talk] Re: Sex, Kink and Ick

Mike Ballard swillsqueal at yahoo.com.au
Thu Sep 23 04:39:32 PDT 2004


Mike writes:


> For the record, I'm not interested in throwing
people into jail because they choose to practice pretend sadism and masochism.

One important point: what I practice is not pretend sm. The welts I raise are real. The difference is that my partners have given informed consent to engage in these practices.
> I'm for stopping real torture, real harm to other
human beings.

The problem is that consensual sm involves real harm. The distinction has to be drawn along the line of consent/non-consent. I (and many, if not most, sm'ers) reinforce it further with the concept of informed consent. Not only is a yes sought, but a yes given as free from coercion as any human action can be.


> I think that one of the reasons that we're still
living in a class society is the way we are socialized to accept dominance and submission rituals.

I would argue that there are genetic markers for dominance and submission which are exploited by capitalists for their own advantage. Capitalists didn't invent D/s rituals; they just figured out how to turn them to their advantage. ******************************************************* Mike B) responds:

If I could be convinced that humans were genetically predisposed to dominance and submission, I'd give up on the socialist project. For now my opinion is that people are socialized to accept dominance by existing authority and have been since at least the dawn of class society. I have become convinced of this view through a critical reading of the reasearch done by Reich, Fromm, Horney and others. Joel Kovel wrote in his review of Chancer's "Sadomasochism in Everyday Life: The Dynamics of Power and Powerlessness" that:

"She sees sadomasochism as a fundamental principle of everyday life, including work and family relationships; and she sees it, more important still, not primarily as a sexual matter at all, but as integral to power, dependence, and unfreedom. Sadomasochism happens whenever people are bound together unfreely, in relations of domination and submission; where they ritualize their interaction; where the relationship is dialectical and dynamic; and finally, where the position of power is buttressed materially, so that the submissive, masochistic person experiences severe sanctions against breaking loose from bondage."

Further Kovel writes that Chancer roots,"sadomasochism in the dynamics of power rather than instinct."

I would agree with you that many, many people are favourably disposed to dominance and submission rituals from their religious practices (gods make great sadists for their flocks) to obediance to the State and lap dog like obeisance to the employing class by the more conservative sections of the producing class. I think they are brought up to be that way. And yes, many play at d/s to varying degrees in their boudoirs. And no, I'm not for arresting these people and placing them in re-education camps. And yes, I do think that this dynamic puts and has put in the past hundred or so years an internal mind brake on any revolution which would have to be made by the class conscious workers themselves i.e. the communist revolution.

Best, Mike B)

===== "Philosophy, which once seemed obsolete, lives on because the moment to realize it was missed."

Theodor Adorno, NEGATIVE DIALECTICS http://profiles.yahoo.com/swillsqueal

__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail



More information about the lbo-talk mailing list