lweiger at umich.edu stated: My point wasn't that it was a good idea to bomb the hell out of SE Asia. But it wasn't a plot to wreck the economy of a future communist state--rather, it was an idiotic plot to show that the US would oppose communist revolution with massive firepower.
~~~~~~~~ [lcm] I believe the average American of the times would have thought that all three actions listed above would have been *just fine* with them. But let's talk about money... Money is being made selling that "massive firepower" to other nation-states, not necessarily by using the weapons in war, or achieving ideological/territorial advantage. I believe the MilIndTechEd complex *has* learned to utilize chaos and war as a means to skim money and resources from the afflicted region even without the ideological/territorial gains, but the "sheeple" of the US are deadset on winning the "ideology war", without even knowing which ideology they are supporting.
For the USSR, the Vietnam war was probably a money maker for their industries as well. Unless we would choose to believe that they gave those MIGs and SAMs, et al. to the the Vietnamese at no cost.
Leigh Meyers leighcmeyers at yahoo.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quoting Michael Pugliese <michael098762001 at earthlink.net>:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:51:53 -0400, <lweiger at umich.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> > I'd imagine the US had a lot more fire-power on hand.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1100842.stm
> "American B52s and other aircraft dropped more bombs than fell on all of
> Europe during World War II, " in Laos.
>
> Just in Laos...Bombing Laos
> From Ralph McGehee <rmcgehee at igc.apc.org>
> 9 October, 1995
>
> The below information is provided based on a request for information in
> soc.history.war.vietnam.
>
> Once the bombing began, the civilian population became the target for more
> than two million tons of bombs. Anthony Lewis wrote that this "was the
> most appalling episode of lawless cruelty in American history."
>
> The below information, much from Douglas Blaufarb, a "top" CIA official in
> Laos, lends credence to Lewis's quote.
>
> Laos 64-70 Barrel role resulted in obliteration of such towns as xieng
> Khouangville, phongsavan, khang khay, and ban ban--all on plain of
> jars--as Well as, among others, mahaxay and tchepone. Such destruction
> resulted from Relaxed ground rules, permitting heavy attacks on military
> targets in or Near towns, and huge increase of available sorties.
> Blaufarb, d.s. (1972). Organizing and managing unconventional war in laos,
> 1962-1970 51
>
> Laos, 62-70 Destruction towns and villages by bombing. Tribal refugees as
> Of april 70 246,000. Over years possibly 700,000 of 1,900,000 under rlg
> Left homes. Casualties toll meo between 9 to 22% meo population laos.
> Blaufarb, d.s. (1972). Organizing and managing unconventional war in laos,
> 1962-1970 86
>
> Laos, 62-70 Usaf bombing north laos to 42,000 sorties a year by 70. First
> time sophisticated high-performance aircraft supported a resistance
> Movement primitive tribesmen. Resistance depended on air transport
> provided By private american contractors with large cargo planes, stol
> aircraft, and H-34 helicopters. Blaufarb, d.s. (1972). Organizing and
> managing Unconventional war in laos, 1962-1970 ix
>
> Laos, 62-73 Cia pilots flew supply and bombing missions in cia-owned
> Planes in support of the secret army. The budget to support the army was
> at Least $300 million a year. 40-50 cia officers ran program, aided by
> several Hundred contract personnel. Congressional research service.
> (2/18/75). Covert acts of the cia 50-74 2/18/75 8
>
> Laos, 64-70 Usaf campaign laos in two parts. Bombing ho chi minh trail
> With two segments steel tiger and tiger hound with control from saigon.
> Usaf combat activity in north called barrel roll and provided support to
> the resistance beginning 64. Attack sorties in barrel role totaled 15,144
> and soared to 42,279 in fy 70. Hit road traffic, depots, and other
> military Installations and flew combat support for irregulars. Blaufarb,
> d.s. (1972). Organizing and managing unconventional war in laos, 1962-1970
> 49
>
> Laos, 68 When president johnson ordered halt to bombing in north vietnam
> it meant shackley's vientiane station could have 300 tactical air strikes
> a Day around site 36. Corn, d. (1994). Blond ghost: ted shackley and the
> Cia's crusades 161-2
>
> Laos. In early days secret war t-28 fighter-bombers bearing royal lao
> Insignia flown by aa pilots on regular bombing missions on pathet lao and
> Nvese positions along ho chi minh trail. Robbins, c. (1979). Air america
> 130
>
> Laos. See chart in ciaf for a year by year breakdown of bombing tonnage.
> Borosage, r.l., & marks, j. (Eds.). (1976). The cia file 77
>
> Laos. U.s. Air force bombing tonnage listed. By time peace agreement
> Reached 733, weight bombs dropped on laos exceeded tonnage of all
> munitions Used by u.s. In world war ii. Prados, j. (1986). Presidents'
> secret wars 279
>
> Laos, 61-75 Americans in civilian clothes flew spotter planes directing
> U.s. Air force strikes against the ho chi minh trail; american "civilian"
> Contractor operated a huge and secret air force radar complex in n.laos.
> The secret air force bombing of laos began in 65. The air force dropped
> 1.6 Million tons bombs on laos, more than it dropped on germany in wwii.
> Volkman, e., & baggett, b. (1989). Secret intelligence 145
>
> Laos, 62-70 Destruction towns and villages by bombing. Tribal refugees as
> Of april 70 246,000. Over years possibly 700,000 of 1,900,000 under rlg
> Left homes. Casualties toll meo between 9 to 22% meo population laos.
> Blaufarb, d.s. (1972). Organizing and managing unconventional war in laos,
> 1962-1970 86
>
> Laos, circa 69 Vang pao's war to be given one and a half times number Air
> sorties allocated to all of vietnam. 2 day campaign against xieng Khouang
> resulted 1500 buildings flattened, four towns wiped from map. Robbins, c.
> (1987). The ravens 154, 56
> --
> Michael Pugliese
> ___________________________________
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>
>
>
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