Wojtek Sokolowski wrote:
>Joanna:
>
>
>>OK. Duly noted. There are a variety of justifications for sadism,
>>"science" being just one of them....God being another, and fear of
>>change (worship of bureaucrats) being the third :)
>>
>>
>>
>
>Submission to authority and sadism are often related, but I do not think
>such was the case in many Milgram's subjects. I read the stuff long time
>ago, so my recollections may fade a bit, but I recall something about many
>subjects showing considerable discomfort when pressured by the administrator
>to proceed with the experiment. Milgram interpreted that as further support
>that people tend to do what they are told by an authority figure even if
>that is against their own beliefs.
>
No, you're right.
>If memory serves, the point he tried to prove was that democratic
>traditions, such those in the US, make people less likely to blindly follow
>orders, as for example the Germans did in WWII - but his experiment failed
>to produce such evidence. Very few subjects actually refused to go ahead,
>but among them was a Dutch immigrant who got irked when the administrator
>recited the formula "you have to proceed, you have no choice," replied that
>he did have a choice, and quit.
>
The U.S. has the patina of democracy -- so far as real democracy is
concerned, I'm not so sure. Until you have democracy in the workplace,
how can it be said that you have democracy -- pn that basic psychic
level that allows people to feel that they really do have a
choice...even outside the proferred options.
>Bur as Miles correctly points out, the experiment was replicated in various
>different settings, mainly because it produced such uncomfortable results.
>In one setting, hospital nurses were telephoned by an unknown to them doctor
>who informed them that he was running late and asked them to administer a
>certain medication to a patient of his. The dose he ordered was several
>times the maximum allowed on the medication's (a harmless placebo) label.
>Most nurses complied with the order - even though no sadism of any sort was
>involved in this replication.
>
This is a totally different case, it implies ignorance/indifference
possibly even overwork, rather than sadism. But I'm willing to believe
the general observation about people's relation to authority. It should
not be suprising: it is beaten (literally/figuratively) into them from a
very early age.
Joanna