<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Re: [lbo-talk] I'm a "committed Leninist"</title></head><body> <div>Chris Doss wrote:</div> <div><br></div> <div>Wait a second, I'm a fan of Kerensky and a defender of Stalin at the same</div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>time? I can be all things to all people!</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>Why not?  Until Lenin's return, "Stalin" supported the Provisional</div> <div>Government--and that was when it was composed of even</div> <div>less "democratic" figures than Kerensky.</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>By the way, I'm still waiting for Trotsky's inevitable revolution in Europe that was the only thing that could save the Soviet Union from Hitler.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>More falsification.  Trotsky always left no doubt that he viewed</div> <div>the defeat of Hitler as inevitable.  He said that proletarian revolution</div> <div>("social" in the rest of the world but "political" in the then-USSR)</div> <div>was the only thing that could save the USSR from capitalist</div> <div>restoration *by the Stalinist bureaucracy*.  Of course, no-one</div> <div>nowadays thinks that was anything but fantasy.  As we all know,</div> <div>socialism was definitively established by "Stalin" and could never,</div> <div>ever, be overthrown!</div> <div><br></div> <div>Shane Mage<br> <br> "Thunderbolt steers all things."         <span ></span >           <span ></span >           <span ></span >           <span ></span >           <span ></span>    <br> </div> <div>Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite><br> <i><b>Shane Mage <shmage@pipeline.com></b></i> wrote:<br> <blockquote>Chris Doss has long left no doubt about his preference for the</blockquote> <blockquote>"February Revolutionaries" Miliukov and Kerensky as against</blockquote> <blockquote>the "October Revolutionaries," those "assholes," those</blockquote> <blockquote>"irresponsible adventurists," Lenin and Trotsky.  Soit.  But he</blockquote> <blockquote>should not be allowed to get away with blatant falsifications:</blockquote> <blockquote><br></blockquote> <blockquote>1.)  "land to the peasants" could not have taken place at all</blockquote> <blockquote>       without the "October" overthrow of his "February" favorites;</blockquote> <blockquote>       peasant landownership was absolutely untouched until 1929-1930;</blockquote> <blockquote>       the miltarized forced collectivization was not the work of</blockquote> <blockquote>       the "October" Bolsheviks but that of their murderer.</blockquote> <blockquote><br></blockquote> <blockquote>2.)  There was nothing "hypothetical" about "revolution in</blockquote> <blockquote>      Germany," as the Kaiser found out in less than a year.</blockquote> <blockquote><br></blockquote> <blockquote>3.)  The Bolsheviks took power under conditions of *imperialist*</blockquote> <blockquote>       war, not of civil war.  "October" ended the imperialist war</blockquote> <blockquote>       in the East.  "February" regrouped and began the civil war</blockquote> <blockquote>       that bled "October" white and, in the absence of successful</blockquote> <blockquote>       European socialist revolutions, led to the Imperial</blockquote> <blockquote>       restoration under Yusef.</blockquote> <blockquote><br></blockquote> <blockquote>Shane Mage<br> <br> "Thunderbolt steers all things."         <span ></span >           <span ></span >           <span ></span >           <span ></span >           <span ></span>    <br> </blockquote> <blockquote>Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64</blockquote> <blockquote><br> <blockquote type="cite" cite>Yeah, that "Land to the Peasants!" thing didn't last very long.<br> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote> <br> </blockquote> <blockquote>I am not a fan of the Bolshies by any means, who I think at bottom were irresponsible adventurists, gambling the fate of 200 million or so people on a hypothetical revolution in Germany as they did, but to be fair they _were_ operating under conditions of civil war. There's no way to know how much of what they did was out of ideological fervor and how much out of being backed into a corner.<br> </blockquote> <blockquote><x-tab>        </x-tab><x-tab>        </x-tab></blockquote> <blockquote> <hr size="1"></blockquote> <blockquote><font face="Arial" size="-1">Do you Yahoo!?<br> Friends. Fun.</font> <a href="http://messenger.yahoo.com/"><font face="Arial" size="-1">Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger</font></a><br> </blockquote> <blockquote><br> ___________________________________<br> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk<br> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote><br></blockquote> <blockquote>___________________________________<br> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk<br> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><x-tab>        </x-tab><x-tab>        </x-tab></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite> <hr size="1"></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">Do you Yahoo!?<br> Friends. Fun.</font> <a href="http://messenger.yahoo.com/"><font face="Arial" size="-1">Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger</font></a></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><br> ___________________________________<br> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk</blockquote> <div><br></div> </body> </html>