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 --></style><title>Re: [lbo-talk] I'm a &quot;committed
Leninist&quot;</title></head><body>
<div>Chris Doss wrote:</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Wait a second, I'm a fan of Kerensky and a defender of Stalin at
the same</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>time? I can be all things to all
people!</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Why not?&nbsp; Until Lenin's return, &quot;Stalin&quot; supported
the Provisional</div>
<div>Government--and that was when it was composed of even</div>
<div>less &quot;democratic&quot; figures than Kerensky.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>By the way, I'm still waiting for
Trotsky's inevitable revolution in Europe that was the only thing that
could save the Soviet Union from Hitler.</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>More falsification.&nbsp; Trotsky always left no doubt that he
viewed</div>
<div>the defeat of Hitler as inevitable.&nbsp; He said that
proletarian revolution</div>
<div>(&quot;social&quot; in the rest of the world but &quot;political&quot;
in the then-USSR)</div>
<div>was the only thing that could save the USSR from capitalist</div>
<div>restoration *by the Stalinist bureaucracy*.&nbsp; Of course,
no-one</div>
<div>nowadays thinks that was anything but fantasy.&nbsp; As we all
know,</div>
<div>socialism was definitively established by &quot;Stalin&quot; and
could never,</div>
<div>ever, be overthrown!</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Shane Mage<br>
<br>
&quot;Thunderbolt steers all
things.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
></span
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></span
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></span
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></span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>
</div>
<div>Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
<i><b>Shane Mage &lt;shmage@pipeline.com&gt;</b></i> wrote:<br>
<blockquote>Chris Doss has long left no doubt about his preference for
the</blockquote>
<blockquote>&quot;February Revolutionaries&quot; Miliukov and Kerensky
as against</blockquote>
<blockquote>the &quot;October Revolutionaries,&quot; those
&quot;assholes,&quot; those</blockquote>
<blockquote>&quot;irresponsible adventurists,&quot; Lenin and
Trotsky.&nbsp; Soit.&nbsp; But he</blockquote>
<blockquote>should not be allowed to get away with blatant
falsifications:</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>1.)&nbsp; &quot;land to the peasants&quot; could not have
taken place at all</blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; without the
&quot;October&quot; overthrow of his &quot;February&quot;
favorites;</blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; peasant landownership
was absolutely untouched until 1929-1930;</blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the miltarized forced
collectivization was not the work of</blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the &quot;October&quot;
Bolsheviks but that of their murderer.</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>2.)&nbsp; There was nothing &quot;hypothetical&quot; about
&quot;revolution in</blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Germany,&quot; as the
Kaiser found out in less than a year.</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>3.)&nbsp; The Bolsheviks took power under conditions of
*imperialist*</blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; war, not of civil
war.&nbsp; &quot;October&quot; ended the imperialist war</blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in the East.&nbsp;
&quot;February&quot; regrouped and began the civil war</blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that bled
&quot;October&quot; white and, in the absence of
successful</blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; European socialist
revolutions, led to the Imperial</blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; restoration under
Yusef.</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>Shane Mage<br>
<br>
&quot;Thunderbolt steers all
things.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
></span
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
></span
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
></span
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
></span
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
></span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64</blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Yeah, that &quot;Land to the Peasants!&quot;
thing didn't last very long.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>&nbsp;<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>I am not a fan of the Bolshies by any means, who I think
at bottom were irresponsible adventurists, gambling the fate of 200
million or so people on a hypothetical revolution in Germany as they
did, but to be fair they _were_ operating under conditions of civil
war. There's no way to know how much of what they did was out of
ideological fervor and&nbsp;how much out of being backed into a
corner.<br>
</blockquote>
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<hr size="1"></blockquote>
<blockquote><font face="Arial" size="-1">Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Friends. Fun.</font> <a href="http://messenger.yahoo.com/"><font
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</blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
___________________________________<br>
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>___________________________________<br>
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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<blockquote type="cite" cite>
<hr size="1"></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">Do you
Yahoo!?<br>
Friends. Fun.</font> <a href="http://messenger.yahoo.com/"><font
face="Arial" size="-1">Try the all-new Yahoo!
Messenger</font></a></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
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