<html> <body> At 05:40 PM 7/28/2004, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">There's no shame in taking ADs, and they can help you function more calmly, improve your memory, and level your judgment -- it's far better than serious depression. I don't knwo of any ADs that have the imputed effects.SSRIs can reduce your libido, other can cause nausea. Be that as it may, I would not want to see members of this list join in the stigmatization of treatment for mood disorders that is all too common in our society.</blockquote> absolutely not, andy.   stigma association with mental health issues is most dangerous for those who need help.   as are the terrible cuts in public mental health services, and the reduced consciousness of mental health problems brought on by the reaganesque attitude that all problems -- politically and otherwise -- will take care of themselves. interestingly, those most terrified and brain washed by the "stigma" are often those who need the help the most, such as hyper-religious, "conservative," people like shrub who hang onto more socially acceptable forms of self treatment when they could use a little boost from the outside.  alcohol -- which is a depressant and neurotoxic -- and illicit drugs are often used by people with depression to treat themselves.  ... as well as being recreational, of course.  it's hard to imagine a worse attempt for a depressed person to self medicate than drinking booze when its side effects are depression, and over long term use can damage a person emotionally and physically. there have been instances, of which i'm sure you're aware, andy, that taking psychotropic drugs was used as at least a partial defense in criminal trials.  prozac, an SSRI, received a lot of attention in this regard. things to bear in mind regarding ADs and all psychotropic drugs. 1.  there are a range of ADs, from the more traditional kind (the older tricyclic ADs, for example) to the SSRIs. 2.   all psychotropic drugs (which include ADs) are mood altering drugs 3.   all psychotropic drugs affect the patient's body chemistry. 4.   all psychotropic drugs have side effects 5.   despite having a pretty good idea, mental health professionals are not exactly sure what these drugs actually do to patients.   as i mentioned, drugs treat symptoms, not causes.  6.    most drug testing by drug companies is not done on a representative population.  it's come to light recently that women and ethnic "minorities" are often left out of tests, leaving the white male population as the primary beneficiaries of "new drugs."   a prime example is the testing of medications for heart disease.  until recently, when "liberated" women who've acquired high stress, generally unhealthy jobs traditionally associate with men, have begun developing heart disease, for example, in much greater numbers.   drug testing consequently is changing. 7.   most importantly, every patient is different and will potentially have a different response to any psychotropic drug from that of the average. in most cases, ADs do help a person function more calmly because their symptoms are relieved and they can think better; in this context, they can level judgement within certain parameters.   they do not always improve memory, but can alleviate the areas where depression interferes with memory.  and they can cause anxiety -- and over time, a reduction in memory -- as a side effect, among others. if one takes ADs, the changes that person will experience in mood and the changes in body chemistry must be monitored carefully until the MH professional and the patient determine the patient, drug and dosage are a "good fit."  the med must be titrated for dosage.  if a patient experiences severe depression -- one that requires hospitalization -- this process can be done in the hospital.  otherwise, the therapist, usually a psychiatrist, prescribing the drugs must keep a careful watch on the patient, and the patient must stay in close contact with the therapist giving feedback as changes occur.  this is vitally important. it takes a few weeks for ADs to begin helping a patient because they must accumulate in the body -- the liver to be precise.  so, it takes time for symptom relieve and side effects to emerge. when AD's begin changing a person's body chemistry and mood, relief of symptoms is the usual result.   yet, as you can imagine as a result of anything that changes your body chemistry (including coffee or alcohol) will bring changes to the way a person sees life, particularly when it's in the form of a psychiatric medication one takes daily in order for it to work.  sometimes these are uniformly beneficial.  sometimes they are a mixed bag.  sometimes they are potentially destructive as the symptom of depression may have masked other, deeper conflicts within the person's personality which now emerge as the depression lifts.  it's the latter that can be traumatic for the person and requires careful monitoring by the therapist.   ADs have beneficial effects for most people. the exceptions are, thankfully, a rarity.  but, nonetheless, exceptions must be dealt with immediately and profoundly.  the experience john thornton kindly shared with the list is an example of a situation when psychotropic drugs can kick back on a person, causing more harm than good. this can be purely biochemical. as john's experience shows, these meds are nothing for people to trifle with.  they produce profound changes in body chemistry, as i've noted; such changes are not the same in all of us. let me add that it's rarely a good idea to get any kind of psychotropic drugs, "tranquilizers", etc, solely from our internist, Unless you are experiencing a very mild, temporary problem.  these meds are powerful and are best prescribed and monitored by those who use them regularly and specialize in their use.   many internists understand this; some don't. when a chronically depressed person experiences relief from depression, it's a good idea to continue with therapy for assistance in dealing with the changes brought by a new way of looking at life and one's self created by the ADs. R </body> </html>