<DIV>I agree with Carroll here. Liberalism is a historical achievement, first of all, not a philosophical thesis. Its possibility depends on historical conditions that are highly contingent. Moreover, it is stronger than any argument we can give for it. We can produce justifications, but we'd have to taken without them even if we couldn't, because There Is No Alternative but tyranny or civil war, and those are unacceptable. </DIV>
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<DIV>Sure, there has to be enough minimal agreement to get the project going. No, we will not be able to persuade Osama bin Ladin or Hitler to play ball. So what? Yes, if we cannot intimidate or overall people like that, as we mainly do pathetic neo-Nazi groups in the US, we have to call in the cops or the army. So what? How does the fact that we cannot pursuade everyone or that we must sometimes defend with force our hard-won achievement --itself, as Carrol notes, won in part by force, cast doubt on it as the only possible method of dealing with differences that civilized people can seriously imagine? jks<BR><BR><B><I>Carrol Cox <cbcox@ilstu.edu></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR><BR>Ted Winslow wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Miles Jackson wrote:<BR>> <BR>> ><BR>> > What's important, as Justin keeps emphasizing, is a good method<BR>> > for adjudicating between people with different moral beliefs and<BR>> > practical objectives.<BR>> <BR>> On your premises, there's no basis for agreement about this either.<BR>> Why would individuals valuing sadistic domination and exploitation of<BR>> others, for instance, and having this as their practical objective also<BR>> value "a good method for adjudicating between people with different<BR>> moral beliefs and practical objectives"?<BR><BR>There is no such basis in the abstract. . . . .<BR>But those needed 'moral' premises have no existence prior to or<BR>autonomously of human practice (struggle). An institution as deeply<BR>grounded as was slavery in the whole of u.s. life was
not going to be<BR>morally condemned except as it was repudiated in blood struggle. </BLOCKQUOTE><p>
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