Charles: with respect to cars, GM bought the other forms of mass transit in Detroit and Los Angeles and then ripped up all the tracks of the system. So, the ruling class ideas on what the system of transportation will be has _made_ a car instead of a trolley ticket a necessity to get to work. There are certain aspects and the want structure of the working class's thinking that are the result of the corporations decisions as to how they can make the most profit. Here you move from ruling ideas - ideology - to conspiracy. In a number of US cities, there really was a conspiracy against mass transit - see for example Caro's biog of Moses. And that clearly isn't in society's interest. On the other hand ideology will, of course, shape people's desires - there is no extra-ideological space of preference formation. But that doesn't tell you anything about the legitimacy of these wants, and what you want (for yourself and for others) is no more ideology-free than anyone else's. As to corporate decisions, I see the problem more as one of not meeting enough needs rather than creating too many needs. CB on the 1950s: "We were in the Golden Age." I think this is pure romanticism, and going back to a golden age is no basis for progressive politics (I know you're not arguing for a return to 1950s values). During periods of stable growth, the people who benefit most will tend to remember it fondly, and not want for too much (true of the nineteenth century labour aristocracy in the UK, too). But as society develops, we create new needs. This isn't a big conspiracy to grow misery. It means that we are able to provide good new things - international travel, centrally heated and air conditioned houses, great television shows (not mentioning the 'c' word). Maybe when we're running society people will want less stuff. But we cannot proceed on the basis that they will. Organising society for human need has to mean organising for what humans think they need, not what elites think they need. Otherwise you're no better than Robert Moses. C'mon comrade, let rip with production! --James James Greenstein