Phew! If THAT is genuine progressivism, then I'm not a genuine progressivist. So, much of our worldview isn't consciously thought through or questioned? I don't imagine that anyone would deny that, but your solution seems to be for the Platonic guardians (you?) who resist TV to replace one set of myths for another. If we're going down the route of questioning one another's radical credentials, that's positively Straussian. Your understanding of art is instrumentalist, because it can conceive art only in terms of social ends, and it is patronising, because it allows for no critical interpretation by the audience. You don't have to respond to art and culture, Wojtek. But don't try to deny its pleasures to the rest of us. I, for one, rather enjoy ultra- violence, macho fantasy etc. --James James Greenstein --- Wojtek Sokolowski wrote: Justin: > You don't get it. What's wrong, artistically, with a > show that glorifies gangsterism? Why do you adopt this What's wrong? It is a macho fantasy, a replay of the myth of the strict father which, according to the cognitive linguist George Lakoff, (http://www.wwcd.org/issues/Lakoff.html) is the fundamental archetype of the conservative mind set. The main problem with these macho fantasy shows, from a progressive point of view, is that they act like Trojan horses - they deliver the conservative frame of reference to popular consciousness, making it ready to absorb the conservative propaganda sound bites as "common sense" and "natural." However, if one tries to critically analyze them, they hide behind their "fiction" status becoming "just" images, "just" fictitious stories. I am afraid, Justin, that it is you and kindred rational spirits who do not get it. People do not think like rationalists want us to believe - by critically examining the facts and drawing conclusions by the process of induction and deduction. People think through cognitive frames that make them accept certain conclusions as "natural" and "given" and simply ignore all the facts that are inconsistent with these conclusions. Those frames are stored in the neurons forming human brain. Therefore, the trick is to evoke the frame that is most conducive for reaching a desired conclusion, as any good propagandist knows. Those frames are evoked and reinforced by constant repetition of metaphors, stories, stereotypes and images that embody them. Macho fantasy shows, while nominally only a fiction, represent a frame of reference that, after the show ends, stays in the mind and directs it accordingly to interpret real life evens. Those frames can be counteracted by the ones that you deride, and showing the nurturing archetypes which Lakoff claims to be the foundation of the liberal/progressive mind set. So here is the answer to your question: if you are trying to promote progressive values and ideology and, at the same time endorse the macho fantasy shows that form the backbone of the conservative mind set - you are shooting yourself in the foot. But you are not alone - many genuinely progressive people, including our fearless guru Doug the New Economy Slayer Henwood and hip hop fans, fall into the same trap. Wojtek ___________________________________ http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk