John is disappointed by my ignorance of local history: Your negative portrayal of Luddites is historically inaccurate and since it is local history for you I am slightly more surprised to see you perpetuate it than I would be for an American. JG: Funny you should say that, since the best British history is being written in the US these days. US capital bought all the good historians, so I'm afraid that you'll need to teach us. Just exactly which part of my presentation is historically inaccurate? I think we could have increased agricultural production in a more worker friendly manner than was done, so in that respect, no I am not "grateful" for the unfair violence done to others just because I am a beneficiary of those policies. JG: Yes, revolution would have been good. But we're not comparing Luddism to primitive capitalism. We're comparing it to the other radical campaigns of that era - the corresponding societies, combinations etc. At the same time that General Ludd and his army were smashing up the machinery that would increase the productivity of labour (a good thing), these other organisations were raising directly political demands for something better. I have no gratitude to the authorities of the day, but I also refuse to romanticise stupid ideas of the day. I could just as easily say that slavery helped build the US into the country it is today so I am grateful that it happened. Ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population of North America also helped bring about our current condition but I am not grateful for that either. Gratitude for these crimes presupposes no alternate path was available at that time for enriching peoples lives. JG: I am grateful only for the development of the machines that the Luddites were smashing. I abhor the social relations of the day. But there were, as I say above, other radical agendas that challenged those social relations. Making emotive comparisons does not help your case. A better comparison might be with working class racism - often motivated by the same things that drove others into left politics, but profoundly wrong. --James