--- Jon Johanning wrote: "I hear an awful lot of talk on this list like this -- "challenging the system of democratic politics." But I don't understand what this slogan really amounst to when it's completely unpacked and enunciated in plain English." It's a good point - too often progressives are content to mutter ever more radical sounding platitudes as we get further and further from power. It is, as you imply, evasive, and I know that I'm as guilty as anyone. What Zizek means, I think, is that capitalism is more effective than ever at co-opting protest. Capitalist ideology today is based around ideas of pluralism and multiculturalism. But there is still a limit point that progressives should bring into the open, which is the point at which some perspectives are ruled out of bounds. And the ruling elite see themselves as somehow outside this, because they are able to look over it ironically, see it not as the expression of real political passion, but as the unfolding of a giant game where we put our cultures and perspectives forward whilst respecting others. Playing the democratic game is a not just evading the real tasks, it is giving legitimacy to the process of rule. I think that Zizek is suggesting that it is more important to the ruling class that you vote and take part in the process than it is to vote for any particular party or individual. And - lest I be misunderstood - this is at an ideological level, not a consciously enunciated outlook or conspiracy. Zizek uses Lenin as an example of some one who acted, who grasped the moment and did unexpected things, taking the people with him. This is one area where I disagree with Zizek. I don't think that it's as easy as he suggests. I think that sometimes not acting is the appropriate 'act' - which is also a Leninist point, although not one that Zizek discusses. What is lost in the generalities that Jon rightly took me to task for is just how bad the situation is for progressives today. And we can't evade that with false unity behind the Democrats, silly slogans, or even common enemies. The main challenges, I think, are clarifying our ideas, and even promoting dissent in the ranks of the progressives so that where we do come together we can be sure that we really are all on the same side. I apologise for the sketchiness of this too-hurried post. I'm obsessing about Zizek at the moment, trying to put together a proper critique. I think he's by far the most interesting thinker writing today, and he deserves more than this quick outline. Chris wrote: "I nominate Doug for General Secretary." Can I be Secretary for War? --James