[lbo-talk] WBAI scores with holocaust denalist's premium

Jim Devine jdevine03 at gmail.com
Mon Aug 1 08:58:10 PDT 2005


Miles:
> > This has puzzled me for years now: like Chris, I see no meaningful
> > distinction between a society genuinely based on Marxist principles
> > and an anarchist society. No state, activities and groups based
> > on mutual benefit and cooperation, no wage exploitation, no
> > "property rights"--how does this Marxist dream differ from Chuck's
> > anarchist utopia?

Bryan wrote:
> The process of getting there.
>
> Immediate anihiliation of the state vs. cooptation of state power as a
> tool to eventually create the conditions of its own obsolescence.

also, Marxists see control of the state (or better, the creation of a new state after smashing the old one) as needed to defend the revolution. If the state is simply smashed, White Armies or their modern equivalent move into the power vacuum.

Of course, the initial stage may not work out so well (the counterrevolution may win, as with the Paris Commune, or the revolution may go bad, as with the USSR). The successful subordination of the state to democratic control by the workers is crucial.

BTW, how do anarchists deal with the possibility that the anarchist commune across the river might develop nuclear power and weapons? doesn't that require that a state prevent such actions? -- Jim Devine "Imagine believing in the control of inflation by curbing the money supply! That is like deciding to stop your dog fouling the sidewalk by plugging up its rear end. It is highly unlikely to succeed, but if it does it kills the hound." -- Michael D. Stephens.



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