[lbo-talk] Federal Air Marshal kills innocent ...

The 30 Pound Snail Who Lives on Gar Lipow's Monitor the.typo.boy at gmail.com
Fri Dec 9 13:59:07 PST 2005


On 12/9/05, Joseph Wanzala <jwanzala at hotmail.com> wrote:
> But wasn't the transformation from the US into a warfare state where people
> are routinely shot for real and/or imagined reasons brought about by some
> sort of plan (conspiracy) or is this just a normal part of human evolution?
>

This is why I was being careful with the term. The idea that making violence easier to engage in was deliberate is not, by the definition I used a conspiracy theory - because it is always part of the normal process of the system to to take any opportunity, and escalate the level of violence routinely used by amount people will tolerate. Anyone who can become President would have used to 911 to do this to some extent -though I suspect that this particular bunch have fewer inhibitions than average and pushed it further.


>You do not need conspiracy theory to find this idea 'attractive'. You only
need to have lived outside the US in country where the state engages in targeted killing..... I assume that you are talking only about North America where many so called leftists persist in the belief that the 'system' does not engage in targeted killings for political reasons, but acknowledge that such things routinely happen in the 'Third World' (El Salvadorean death squads etc) and acknowledge that Western countries in fact train these death squads. But when people suggest the same sort of thing might be happening 'here' it is is dismissed as 'conspiracy theory'.

I think the key words are "routinely" and "targeted". Because targeted political assasination is not routine in the U.S. or Canada, the burden of proof is on anyone advancing a particular instance. Also, because it is non-routine, we face a hell of lot of other examples where the U.S. kills more people both outside and inside the U.S. routinely. For example, lack of regulation of the coal industry of something that routinely kills more than all the political assasinations combined.


>As far as I know, it has not been the routine operation of the US to operate
a global network secret prisons and 'render' hapless people unto them - would it meet your definition of a conspiracy theory to say that there are some people in government 'acting exceptionally' by doing just that - is America now a 'conspiracy nation'?

Nope - because it has stopped being an exception. Note also that I did not claim that conspiracy theories are always untrue - merely pointed out a non-rational component that makes them attractive. Because of this we have to be very very careful. But your example is a good one for your case, because before it became routine, it almost certainly happened on a non-routine basis. That is , pre Bush I think most torture on behalf of U.S. intelligence agencies was done to people kidnapped by third parties, though often the actual torture took place in the presence of U.S. agents, with lists provided by the U.S. However it would surprise me if U.S. agencies *never* were directly involved in the actual kidnappings, or that *no one* was ever taken from the U.S.

But even though I don't rule out secret conspiraces on the face of it, I'm always aware that a great deal more evil is done routinely, openly, in full compliance with U.S. law that is done secretly. Also most actual "conspiracies" are open secrets, that is widely known and document but officially denied and thus treated as problematic by the propaganda organs known as the main stream media.



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