[lbo-talk] Re: Szechuan Death (and rebirth?)

Sean Johnson Andrews inciteinsight at hotmail.com
Thu Dec 22 10:09:01 PST 2005



> Indeed, I agree that Cuba's record of hurricane safety is excellent,
> with its evacuations of affected social subunits thoroughly efficient
> and unmarred by any messy individual concerns, and without death or
> injury (naturally). Of course, hurricane damage and death has nothing
> to do with the relative number of hurricanes striking Cuba versus, say,
> the entire Gulf Coast of the United States. I also expect that this is
> why I just read about the massive emigration push to Cuba from stricken
> areas in Florida, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas;
> people have just finally gotten tired of living in an uncaring shithole
> and have decided to move to a paradise where they will be taken care of
> properly. Why, that marvelous engine of human progress has been
> prosperously self-sufficient for decades, so it will be a remarkably
> good deal for those who move. (Ignore those 1500 attempted boat
> crossings from Cuba to Florida in 2004; those are, of course, evil
> propaganda lies fabricated to make Fidel look bad. Che lives!)

Summary: Yes, you've just disproven all of the arguments I made in my piece about the ability of a state to protect citizens, minus invective or egotistical ranting, but you are still the ideologically crippled one, evidenced by the lack of massive immigration by people who had a hard time getting out of New Orleans muchless the country.

pace:


> Well? I'm curious - what's the date on *your* airline ticket to Havana?
> Does anybody here have such a ticket?

No. Last time I checked, it isn't possible to fly direct from US to Cuba. But maybe some of the measures of the ridiculous embargo have been curbed.

and just for the record, whatever you think you're doing in these posts, realize that, if you spent any time on this list at all, there is plenty of dissent flying around. The only thing sets you apart is that you seem to have nothing else to do but compose long, disrespectful e-mails that, far from really presenting a coherent argument, are basically some form of onanistic megalomania where you have everyone figured out and the biggest problem with the world is that it hasn't realized you have all the answers. I would also add that many people here are quite familiar with libertarian arguments (a diversity of them in fact) and if you hope to have more than a fixed tournament, which, in your mind, you always win, then I encourage you to actually try to engage people with ideas and arguments rather than just insult, posturing, and rhetoric.

Ideally this forum isn't supposed to be the internet equivalent of cable news or talk radio, but I have complete faith that you could quickly drag the existing conversation to that kind of level. I suspect, however, that until you begin to act like this forum deserves the slightest modicum of respect, it will continue to treat you with either neglect or animosity. This will not be because of some inherent ideological tendency (as you'd evidently like to argue) but just because it hardly seems worth it to speak to someone whose only intent is to tell you you're an evil imbicile no matter what you say.

Judging from your manners on the list so far, I don't know if you are even capable of a civil conversation, but if your goal is anything other than trying to flex your flame muscles three times a day to show your logical superiority, you should post your posturing to some other forum as well since I am pretty sure most people here will remain un-impressed. This forum, despite it's occasional bouts of recess, is for grown ups who are talking about serious issues and, many times, doing a variety of other work outside of this forum. It is this outside work that helps to inform their ideas, not some warmed over ideology they have nursed in the frozen north.

Even if you don't agree with these ideas, I think you would find it surprising how much you can learn by listening to their experiences. My sense is that learning is not really what you're interested in: that takes time. You're out for a bout of ultraviolent pettifogging, evident in the way you're trying to pick fights. It's unproductive, if not destructive, egotistical, and completely the opposite of what you claim you're doing (fittingly, the key attributes I most often associate with the brand of milk-fed, but brutal libertarianism you seem to advocate; on the other hand, you haven't actually advocated anything here--only tried to kick around people you barely know based on your belief that you've figured out the once and for all answers to questions that have been up for debate for several centuries, if not millennia. Aside from the hubris of this position, these are not ideologies you're engaging with, they are people, several of whom make valuable contributions to this discussion board. It would behoove you to consider this before your next round of invective).

Speaking of that, I'll be away from e-mail for a couple of days (funeral, holidays, etc.) so if you really want the inevitable insults you find to hurl at me to be timely and effective, you might hold off until at least after the 25th. I'd rather you just begin engaging the forum in a constructive way but I have seen the way you deal with your interlocutors. In which case, this e-mail was just as much of a waste of time as the one you'll send in response. But I have grown to value this forum and find what you are saying to be so presumptuous that I felt the need to respond.

Along those lines, I would also like to say to the people who participate in discussions on this list that I have benefited enormously from them. Though sometimes a topic gets tediously over argued, it is often very productive to see it argued from a variety of explicit positions--and when it isn't productive, usually people can tell that too, which in itself is often an achievement. I also find this to be one of the best places to find out about national and international social and economic issues from the stories people forward. So thanks to those of you who take the time to participate (for the moment, present company excluded.)

Best, -s



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