[lbo-talk] The Ontology of Two Chairs (was Reich on sex & religion)

[Carrol Cox]

Jon Johanning wrote:
> 
> On Jan 1, 2005, at 1:42 PM, joanna bujes wrote:
> 
> > There is no "mathematics" apart from people.
> 
> Sorry, but I just can't understand this sort of statement, which I know
> is quite fashionable in postmodern circles. Take away the quote marks
> -- I don't see why they in your sentence -- and we are talking about
> numbers, shapes, etc. There is a lot of controversy among philosophers
> of mathematics about just what their ontological status is, but I am
> sure they were around before people were. The universe was here long
> before we were, and it operated according to mathematical laws.

The universe was here before people existed. But it didn't operate
according to mathematical laws, it just operated, period. Laws (unlike
Plato's Forms), however, exist only in human brains; they represent our
collective effort (never complete, never exact) to understand that
operating of the universe. No human brains, no laws, mathematical or
otherwise. It has been a long time since I read the _Anti-Duhring_, but
as I understood it at the time, Engels held to this position: i.e., he
held that the belief in the non-mental existence of laws led to
idealism. The universe is extra-mental; laws are mental.

Carrol

P.S. I don't know if this is relevant or not. The ratio of the
circumference to the radius of a circle is _not_ equal to any value of
pi that has ever been expressed. And in fact the mathematician's circle
does not exist in extra-mental reality; it is only an ideal abstraction
from the 'circles' we see in the world. Mathematics only approximates
the real world; but the real world is not an approximation to itself. It
merely is.