> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of John Lacny
> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:01 PM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Boycotting the unorganized? (multiple replies)
>
> Michael Dawson:
>
> > Yes, I do support that right, just as I support people's right
> > to try to fight that.
>
> You mean that you support people's right to fight, but not to actually
> win?
> You support people's right to fight, but you would prefer that the state
> not
> take their side? You would oppose, say, a law banning permanent scabs?
> Once
> again, I don't think you really believe this, or at least, I don't think
> you've fully thought through the implications of what you're saying.
>
>
> > I also support everybody's right to vote and argue for fascists,
> > though I obviously oppose fascism. It's called democracy.
>
> No, it's called capitalism. The two are not synonymous. And putting aside
> the notion that fascists have a right to "free speech" (I'll just accept
> your premise for the sake of argument), there's a difference between some
> crackpot advocating fascist ideas, and someone putting fascist ideas into
> practice by going into the streets and busting heads. Similarly, there's a
> difference between someone advocating a "right to scab" and someone
> actually
> doing it. Scabbing is not speech or advocacy -- it is actively colluding
> with capital to steal someone else's job.
>
> So I'm sorry, but nothing you're saying here makes much sense. You support
> capitalists' "rights," but also "the right to fight against it"? Wojtek is
> correct: everything you're saying is imbued with business ideology. In no
> other country on earth would a trade unionist say the kinds of things you
> are saying, and I do not say this to disparage you as a trade unionist in
> any way. In many other countries, not only are permanent scabs banned, but
> there are much more severe state restrictions on an employer's ability to
> hire scabs en masse, not to mention a deeper social ethic against
> scabbing.
> Surely you are not suggesting that this a bad thing?
>
> The kinds of arguments that you are employing are the kinds of false
> appeals
> to "individual" choice that employers use in arguing for "right to work
> laws" against "forced union dues," attempts to further restrict unions'
> political participation on the grounds of "paycheck protection," and the
> like. They're profoundly anti-democratic lines of argument dressed in
> pseudo-democratic garb, where the "market" becomes the ultimate arbiter
> for
> freedom and synonymous with democracy.
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - -
> John Lacny
> http://www.johnlacny.com
>
> Tell no lies, claim no easy victories
>
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