[lbo-talk] Re: boycotting the unorganized (middle class)

[snit snat]

and all this happens simply by verbalizing it, right? you just tell people 
the truth of their condition and --voila!--revolution. this is what I never 
get about Carrol's position. It's as if engaging in the very analysis Marx 
engaged in -- he discusses all sorts of _classes_ (not just two) and did so 
in Das Kaptial. When writing about the French Revolution, his historical 
analysis was about delineating the several different _classes_ that he 
identified and asking where their interests lie and why they took the sides 
they took. The interest in theories of the "new class" that spring up in 
the late 60s/70s came straight from Marx's discussion of the role of 
intellectuals, which he saw as a _class_ that could go either way.

there's people's _subjective_ perception, but as Marx showed, there is also 
a way to look at the issue of _classes_ that really does have to do with 
relation to the means of production. Even Marx didn't say it was simply as 
either you either own them or you don't. Marx only said that, as crises 
advanced the world would eventually be composed of two classes at a 
standoff, with the myriad classes eventually taking one side or the other.

kelley

At 04:58 PM 1/21/2005, Turbulo at aol.com wrote:
>Carrol Cox wrote:
>
> >An analysis of this situation that endlessly invokes a mythical "middle
> >class" is simply not serious.
>
>You've got a serious point with this, but most Americans believe
>they're middle class. What do you do, tell them they're deluded? Tell
>them to substitute something less appealing for their aspirational
>self-ID?
>
>Doug
>
>             ******************
>
>Yes, this is what you have to tell them in one way or another.Unless 
>people discard their illusions and face their reality, nothing much will 
>ever change. Why should anyone want to transform his/her reality if s/he 
>doesn't perceive it as unappealing?
>
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