[lbo-talk] Finding the elephant in the room

Charles Brown cbrown at michiganlegal.org
Tue Jul 19 09:39:49 PDT 2005


ravi :

CB, you response is shockingly akin to what i might hear from a right-winger. which has been my puzzlement throughout the "bring back the troops" effort from the left. i doubt that CB or yoshie share the right's sentiments. IMHO, however, they need to express their position better. definitely better than CB's words above, which are dangerously close to: we the US will go fuck with any country at our pleasure and leave it in any state we wish. [perhaps that's just my misreading]

^^^^ CB: Ravi, maybe you could elaborate. I don't quite get how my words are anywhere near what you are saying. In fact they are sort of be the complete opposite of " we the US will go fuck with any country at our pleasure and leave it in any state we wish."

Lets put it this way. U.S. out of everywhere !

^^^^

i tend to agree with uvj, or at least feel that the possibility for all out chaos (afghanistan style) post US withdrawal is a real one. and I think chris doss' point about familiarity with the situation on the ground is required to make the right pragmatic (not ideological) call. in particular, i believe multiple polls of iraqis [yes, admittedly not the most reliable tool] have shown that they prefer the US presence (now that the US has created the mess).

^^^^ CB: Isn't there "all out chaos" there now ?

^^^^^^

the swiss guard did not create the mess in iraq. the US did. if as an american you wish to have a say in US troop involvement, it seems logical to suggest that you have, equally, a responsibility for the mess that the US has created.

^^^^ CB: Nope. I, personally, got no responsibility whatsoever. I opposed the U.S. invasion _tout court_. Please spread the word around the world. Charles Brown completely opposes invasion and occupation of Iraq. The only word I wish to have is "U.S., get out of Iraq !"

^^^^

may i suggest you qualify your post with viable alternatives, so it (your post) does not reduce to merely [the expression of] an attempt to save american lives.

--ravi

^^^^

CB: U.S. withdrawal will save the most Iraqi and American lives. I don't agree with your "chaos" analysis of Iraq. That's why U.S. withdrawal is the optimum viable alternative.



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