Land and faith
The authors avoid making the Arab-Israeli conflict either a cause of, or an excuse for, the region's failings.
That's a good thing because Israel is a client state for western interests and the arabs... Well, what's left of nomadic cultures make an easy target in the 21st century.
But that's ok, we'll leave when the oil runs out.
I paraphrase a not so old proverb from the region: My grandfather rode a mule I grew up riding mules and then there were cars My son rides in a car My grandson will ride a mule once again. (visualize an arabic smiley face)
Central Asia will be tougher... rare earths, Chromium, Mangese...more
We'll be developing client states there and fighting there
long after the oil runs out. It's just starting to get hot.
If you are looking for solutions... ask "What If".
As in "What if I managed to change the national interests of MY country?"
James Heartfield:
"What if AQ is just saying: Fuck YOUR definition of democracy, our culture & societies have worked just as well as yours, and you'll leave us alone now... and we might have to kill a few of you to impress you that we mean it, and a certain percentage of muslims in every country in the world believes that...
Including Iraqis."
I hope that this is a parody, for your sake, and that I am making a mistake in replying to it.
Leigh imagines Osama bin Laden as a kind of Jim Belushi, saying 'FUCK YOU', which just shows that he is projecting his own western adultescent angst onto Al Qaida. <...>
Piling error upon error, he imagines that Al Qaida want to defend 'our culture and societies' when they have been at war with most of the Arab and Muslim world since their inception. Their published ideology promises to overthrow Arab 'culture and society', which is corrupt. <...>
Well... mostly the arab governments ARE corrupt, and you really need to look at those pictures of the gateway to Makka and ask yourself a few hard questions about who represents who's long term best interests.
I never said that fundamentalism wasn't anachronism, and the depth of UBL's religosity is unknown to me, and you.
Maybe he found the lord... like ollie north, and so many other American military/political scum. GWB thinks their type of christianity is the lord's way. Why shouldn't devout muslims think UBL is just ok with them?
Because they're muslims? Because they kill people for reasons the people being killed don't (or don't want to) fathom?
No one (normal western psychology) thinks they are deserving of death.
Ollie North and his ilk were murderers as well. Western society wasn't screaming bloody murder about him as his goon squads were murdering people alll over latin america... Training people how to drop blindfolded vicitms from aircraft into the ocean.
It should be apparrent by now that what the west is doing to counter whatever AQ and the muslim fundamentalists are planning and doing is NOT WORKING.
They are saying fuck you with ak47s and bombs.
Their "angst" is pretty deadly, not adolecent at all, and pardon me, but perhaps your perception of my motives for speculating is adolecent?
You very well should be asking "what if", or you'll be saying WTF! for a long long time. It's not a game... or a movie.
They will keep trying to kill you, and me.
That's what I do know with some degree of certainty. (but we're still infinitely more likely to get hit by a car in a marked crossing)
Everything else I know about AQ, has been filtered through the western perception of muslim fundamentalists and AQ/UBL.
You too.
Except perhaps UBL's pre-election speech, where he states quite plainly that we, as individuals, are responsible for what our governments are doing in that region of the world. You should read it.
Oh I'm sorry.. Charles Brown bowed out of responsiblity for the U.S. government's actions in another thread. Looks good in print.
But the reality of the situation is quite different.
Doug:
"Then imposing sharia, under which I'm sure Leigh would thrive."
I'm not muslim, I wouldn't thrive, thanks. (kosher laws never did much for me either)
"Sharia" reads alot better than "islamo-fascist", which reminds me of how the word "communist" and "gook" were bandied about at other times. "Islamo" is a nasty attempt to depersonalize the muslim faith. Keep talking... Keep dying. If you want a holy war you got it...
I don't think one single person that lives in the west is capable of planning and executing the the simplest modifications of a culture that is totally, uttery foreign to the basic logic of industrial society and linear time. Even an expat, or a student who lives outside the region is changed, much as many American change when they live overseas for extended perioids in the general population of the country of residence. Expats are the people who wield the secular power in Iraq and Afghanistan right now.
The modifications include: Banking & finance Women's rights Government policing. policy, and suppression action against tribal groups that have been autonomous since prehistory...
More... I could make a very long list.
Look, Bechtel couldn't even build apartment houses fit to live in around Kabul. Too much glass and concrete.
Too hot in the summer Too cold in the winter
We're supposed to help them build "democracy? We can't even build a house to fit the culture and region.
You say we learn from the mistakes? I say that's alright when you are building a house, not a "new" society.
The west is kidding itself into thinking it has ANYTHING to offer the muslim world that they truly need, because it's alot easier to kid than face the truth of the matter.
Wojtek Sokolowski proposed: It is an unquestionable fact that Western democracies created unprecedented peace and prosperity, thus ending the state of perpetual war that characterized earlier stages of development. Whatever we can think of the ethical and aesthetic values (or lack thereof) of commercialism and liberal democracy - it is an undisputed fact that liberal democracies are considerably less likely to go to war than any other form of polity. There is a reason for the phrase Pax Britannica or Pax Americana - after all it, it is peace with incidental episodes of war as opposed to, say, 30- or 100- year wars that used to go on.
It is also an indisputable fact that everyone, from Meji Japan, to Soviet Russia, to China, Latin America and Africa want to emulate the success of western/northern liberal democracies...
Unprecedented Peace, Prosperity... success. They are beautiful words that apply to a truly miniscule portion of the world population. And it's very very unlikely that the rest of the world will get the peace and prosperity in a manner that's... "holistic", not coerced by circumstance and outside interest.
Recent classic example at the G8 ag conference. The west is pushing GMO crops on Africa to help feed people. The African ag ministers said 'We usually don't have problems growing the crops... distribution is the problem. We need infrastructure... roads.'
Here a transcript:
West: Heh? What did you say? You need GMO crops? We've got those.
Africa: No no infrastructure! Roads. Modern secure storage facilities...
West: Sorry. We don't have that...(looks around to see if China overheard.)
Africa: But that's what we need, GMOs aren't going to help
West: Heh?
Africa:....
West: How's the price of your coffee and cotton crops doing in our rigged markets?
Africa: Neevvermind!
West: How about them Yankees! (Arsenal... pick a team)
Africa:Heh?
West: Neeeveeermind!
Africa: (Looks stage left, sees China) Hey China! I heard about that nifty new railroad project in the Phillipines. Care to build some roads for us?
China:(Gets cut off rudely by west...)
West: Now, now Africa... Be nice... buy our products... hell, take 'em we're givin' 'em away... or else something baaaad might happen to the price of your coffee & cotton and you waon't have a pot to piss in, no less pay china for those shiny new roads.
Do we do this deal, or do we supply weapons, logistics and funding to rebel groups in your country that you've never even heard of? (under breath: because we create them)?
Africa: That's BLACKMAIL!
West: We call it business.
=8'>
I want to reply to that post on a point by point. Tommorrow overposted.
Leigh http://www.leighm.net