ravi wrote:
>
> [CLIP]
> Carrol writes:
> >
> > Ravi is daydreaming if he thinks it is possible to force or persuade
> > the u.s. government to follow even as minimally decent program in
> > Iraq. We have no influence whatever, we will NEVER have any influence
> > whatever on _how_ the u.s. acts in Iraq or Yugoslavia or Afghanistan.
> > The only power (or possible power) we have is to hasten u.s.
> > withdrawal. When Ravi asks that the u.s. not withdraw until it has
> > done something decent he is, though he seems not to realize it,
> > favoring the u.s. to stay there forever killing more and more
> > Iraqis.
> >
>
> why? because that's what happened in vietnam? as wojtek (or someone else
> points out) we cannot always resort to this sort of reasoning by
> analogy.
I had missed this comment when it was made (Tue, 19 Jul). My argument had nothing whatever to do with Vietnam, or with any other particular act of the united states but with my fundamental understanding of the role of the united states in the world today. Marx suggests someplace that humanity only sets itself those tasks which it can perform. Perhaps. But the perspective which controls all my thinking is that the task which faces humanity today (prior to the achievement of more pleasant tasks) is the destruction of the u.s. empire, which increasingly is posing a threat to the very survival of the species.
This debate reoccurs endlessly in different forms. Shortly before the Sandinistas seized power in Nicaragua a professor of political science here at ISU (who had visited Central America several times) conducted a forum on conditions there. His position was that conditions in Nicaragua were so terrible that only through aid from the u.s. could they improve. I argued that the best thing leftists in the u.s. could do for Nicaragua was to oppose _any_ kind of U.S. interference there. He thought that was totally irrational. Of course, Nicaragua, despite the terrible conditions _and_ the serious errors of the Sandinistas, was making substantial progress until the u.s. began the Contra War.
I would go further. If there is any part of the world that needs foreign assistance it is sub-Saharan Africa. But I predict that as long as u.s. and european interference (whether as aid or any other form) continues there conditions will only worsen.
It sounds sweet to say that the imperialist nations should aid in repairing the tremendous damage they have done in the last two centuries around the world, but any aid will turn out to be destructive to the people 'aided.'
I haven't followed this thread very closely, so I don't know what the subject line originally referred to, but the monster in the 'room' (i.e. the whole earth) is the United States. Of course if the U.S. empire is merely replaced with a European or Chinese empire, there will be no improvement. But that is a problem for the next generation. Our task is to fight the u.s. state and ruling class with every resource at our disposal.
Carrol