[lbo-talk] Biology vs. Sociobiology: Big Breasts and Bonsai

Yoshie Furuhashi furuhashi.1 at osu.edu
Thu Jun 2 12:19:49 PDT 2005



>[lbo-talk] Biology vs. Sociobiology: Father's Milk
>Jim Devine jdevine03 at gmail.com
>Thu Jun 2 10:30:03 PDT 2005
<snip>
>One of the questions that sociobiology or crude Darwinism (which
>stresses natural selection über alles) can't answer is why women
>have large breasts -- because the size plays no adaptive function
>and this phenomenon is rare or even nonexistent outside of homo
>sapiens. One theory -- cf. Marvin Harris' OUR KIND -- accepts
>Darwin's theory of sexual selection, which many crude Darwinists see
>as almost heretical: women have large breasts simply because men are
>more attracted to women with them, so that the "large breast" gene
>is more likely to be passed down the generations.
>
>I must admit to being obsessed with this topic. ;-)

Why do men think that it was men, rather than women, who were the main determinant of sexual selection of humans, unlike other animals?
:-> In any case, once again, there is a structural reason: a larger
brain -> a change in skull shape -> bigger breasts.

<blockquote>Breasts shaped by evolution for babies, not men

That cute roundness and up-tilt to your breasts evolved to help feed your baby, not attract your mate, say evolutionists.

A study in the April 11th issue of "New Scientist" magazine argues that that cute roundness and up-tilt of a woman's breast evolved to prevent babies from smothering during breastfeeding, and that their shape wasn't designed by evolution to attract men.

According to Gillian Bentley, a Royal Society research fellow at University College in London, England, monkeys, with their jutting jaws, can suckle their flat-chested mothers without suffocating, but humans, whose faces are flatter, caused evolutionary pressure on breast shape, making them rounder and fuller to allow human infants to breathe while feeding, says the scientist.

"The idea came to me from breast feeding my own child when she was an infant," says Bentley. "If the human breast were flat during lactation, which is true for our closest primate relatives, human infants, with their flat faces, would suffocate."

Evolutionary biologists have long reflected on the reason for the shape of the human breast. Because breasts don't develop until puberty, biologists have suggested that they helped early human females attract a mate and keep him interested in her welfare and the welfare of her children. Those with larger breasts were more successful, the theory goes, and therefore produced more offspring.

"My theory turns this around," Bentley says. "Humans have flatter faces because of the evolution of a larger brain, which necessitated a change in skull shape, as well as some changes in mouth structure, the tongue, the muscles that support the tongue and the length of the throat as language developed. The whole idea is that there was a co-evolution of the human flat face with breast shape, and thus there was evolutionary pressure on the shape of the breast to accommodate the infant."

On the other hand, if sexual selection is the reason for the larger human breast, as many scientists have thought, why don't all cultures eroticize the breast?

"It is true that in many cultures around the world, the breast is not sexual," says Marilyn Yalom, author of A History of the Breast and A History of the Wife. "The breast is over-eroticized in the Western world, but if you look at cultures in Africa, the breast is for the baby, not for the male. It is the buttocks that have become the erotic focal [there]."

The same is true in other cultures; for example, the Chinese make a fetish of the foot, whereas the Japanese concentrated on the nape of the neck.

Blame the male academics for the sexual selection theory, Bentley says. "The majority of people who used the sexual selection argument have been male and were part of Western culture with its eroticized view of the breast."

But if sexual selection is not the reason for the shape of the human breast, why does the breast respond sexually?

Bentley says, "It could be a combo here. The pressure for the shape of the breast was initially from this need to feed the baby and then, secondarily, men may have evolved to find the breast of this shape and size more sexually interesting. The convergence of the two pressures could have evolved into more successfully reproducing females."

<http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/breasts_shaped_babies.html></blockquote>


>[lbo-talk] Biology vs. Sociobiology: Father's Milk
>jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net
>Thu Jun 2 12:00:51 PDT 2005
<snip>
>Is it true men are more frequently attracted to women with large
>breasts or is it something different? Isn't it possible that men
>enjoy seeing large breasts, just as men enjoy seeing large trees,
>or large cliff faces, or large waterfalls.

By that logic, men in Japan must prefer smaller to larger breasts and women in Japan must prefer smaller to larger penises -- after all, it's a country that prizes _bonsai_ and that exhibits a passion for miniaturizing all gadgets. :-> -- Yoshie

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