Carrol Cox
Charles Brown wrote:
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> Woooo !! The LBO prayer: Lord give me strength to avoid _ad hominem_ (
> that's just a figure of speech).
Neither Yoshie nor Jeffrey has offered ad hominem arguments. They may/may not have made personal attacks on each other, but personal attacks are _not_ logical fallacies. Jeffrey has not said, "Yoshie is X, therefore do not accept her Claim P." Yoshie has not said, "Jeffrey is X, therefore do not accept his claim P."
Personal attacks are usually undesirable, but they do not poison a discussion in the way ad hominem arguments do.
^^^^^ CB: I thought you might say this. That's why I put in the reference to "figure of speech" as a double entendre. It applies to both the calling on the Lord AND the _ad hominem_, i.e. not literally , but figuratively _ad hominem_.
However, I don't think I agree with your oft expressed opinion that personal attacks are not _ad hominem_. Personal attacks are often simultaneously _ad hominem_ fallacies. If somebody attacks someone's intelligence in the course of an argument, it is usually meant for the personal attack to attack the argument too. If somebody says " That stupid A is wrong when he argues X" , the reference to stupidity is meant to say that the argument X is false just as much as to insult A. If they say "so and so is a hypocrite when they argue such and such", it is meant to say that such and such is false, as well as to personally attack so and so. So, I don't think your distinction between the two is valid much of the time. Many personal attacks are also _ad hominem_ fallacies.
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You probably remember the old cynical advice to lawyers. If the facts are against you, emphasize law. If the law is against you, emphasize facts. If both are against you, attack the opposing attorney. _Ad Hominem_ attacks, aside from being poisonous, exhibit the intellectual vacuity of those using that type of argument. Personal attacks merely exhibit bad manners.
Carrol
^^^^ CB: Have you heard the old wives' tale that lawyers are not only liars but logicians ?