[lbo-talk] Zizek on the Frankfurt School and Stalinism

snitsnat snitilicious at tampabay.rr.com
Wed Mar 23 14:25:05 PST 2005


Plus, the comparative analyses I've read is based on something quite plausible (and very persuasie, to me, though I admit it's that fondness for the order imposed by Grand Theory): the two were the result of a crisis of finance capital and the social changes brought on by rapid industrialization/change.

IF I've ever discussed it that way, it's not to say one was worse but to remind people that, in fact, it's the processes at the root of _capitalism_ that were responsible for both. It wasn't socialism, it was the attempt to rapidly industrialize a nation through the stages Marx predicted that led to Stalinism.

I'm sure Real Marxits (tm) dislike that theory, but there ya have it.

kelley

post whore who is now fini! really! honest! i mean it! but this issue is interesting enought that I was some feedback, though, elaborations from the brain trust. NOW! :)

At 03:03 PM 3/23/2005, Thomas Seay wrote:


>--- Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>The alternative, the notion that it
> > is even possible to
> > compare rationally the two totalitarianisms, tends
> > to produce the
> > conclusion ­ explicit or implicit ­ that Fascism was
> > the lesser evil, an
> > understandable reaction to the Communist threat.
>
>I haven't read the Zizek article, but I dont
>understand why it is irrational to compare Hitler and
>Stalin. Compare does not mean we absolutely equate
>them. I, for one, do not draw the conclusion that
>fascism was the lesser evil (between fascism and
>stalinism). One comparison we might make is that in
>both the cases of Stalin and Hitler, there was too
>much power at the disposal of each man, not enough
>democratic review. Trivial observation perhaps, but
>what's irrational about making such a comparison?
>
>What this comes back to is trying to skirt the issue
>by forcing us into their binary logic, that is making
>us choose between the two. I vote "none of the
>above".
>
>-Thomas
>
><<We are at such a point in mankind's evolution where changed conditions
>invalidate all our policies that have been so successful even in the
>recent past, and that presumably have constituted the ideal response to a
>presumably unchanging and unchangeable human condition. No wonder we are
>stupefied and confused-but our mistake is the same which many cultures
>have made before us, namely to force a rigid model upon a fluid reality.
>
>Erich Jantsch - "Design for Evolution: Self-Organization and Planning in
>the Life of Human Systems"
>
>
>
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