There is no evidence that is what Terri expressed. It is what her husband (who has a new family now and will not give her a divorce) claims she wants and her parents differ. I agree with Nat Hentoff on this. The evidence is not there. The court ruled without sufficient evidence. They make mistakes, ask some death row inmates.
>
>And, btw, I agree with Terry. It's not because of the machine things
>though, it's because, in general, I don't want to stay around if I
>don't have certain things. For instance, if I don't have something
>meaningful to do with my life, I'd be happy to die.
Hey you can kill yourself any time of day or night.
>
>My partner's mom doesn't want to be cared for by us, as she cared
>for her own mother for 25 years. She wants to be put in a nursing
>home. I wouldn't comply with her wishes, but I understand them. She
>wants that because, although she was left a healthy estate by her
>husband, although she's a Mormon and has a support network to help,
>and a family to help as well, and a strong identity to
>self-sacrificing commitment as part of a community of faith in god,
>it was hard work and sometimes she resented it.
>
>She doesn't want to burden anyone else as her mother burdened her.
>
>So? It's a fact, taking care of someone is a burden. You've raised
>kids. It isn't always fun. Sometimes you feel like you are nothing
>but a milk machine and a washing machine.
That is where one hires a worker who does this kind of work (homecare workers -- there is a whole union made up of them, the SEIU). That is what the in home support services movement is about. I continue to be amazed at how little people know and then call themselves burdened.
>
>It's also a fact that taking care of someone can be a great joy.
>
>But don't try to tell people that feeling other wise is some kind of
>horrible, awful feeling that they shouldn't have. They have it. It's
>a good thing to acknowledge that the two feelings live side by side.
Don't put words in my mouth, you piss me off too.
>
>And most people I know feel smilarly about being kept alive with
>heroic measures. They do not want to live with a machine, no
>consciousness. Unlike you, I don't buy it that she's conscious and
>it doesn't matter anyway. The courts concluded that she didn't want
>to be kept alive by a machine under those particular circumstances.
You have the right to make a living will and have your wishes fulfilled. Everyone has the right to refuse medical treatment or whatever they think is medical treatment. WHAT is the big deal.
>
>It does not follow that, since I disagree with you, I'm an oppressor
>of the disabled. I disagree with you -- that is all you can call it.
>To accuse me or anyone else her of being crypto Naxis is logical
>fallacy -- an ad hominem attack that is out of line. IF you want to
>argue your case, argue it, don't use such tactics because it makes
>you look like you have absolutely nothing else to support an
>argument.
I find it hard to be the only person who knows something about the disability movement (that has been happening since the 1970s) on this list.
The truth is that I choose to back off when I feel the exchange is useless.
>
>But to get back to my convos with people, their sentiment is not
>that they don't want to be disabled or that they hate the disabled
>or antying of the sort -- let alone are they interested in offing
>them. What they don't want is to have their families have to take
>care of them or spend loads of money.
It's money is it? It's not wanting to spend your time taking care of a family member? Granted that some states are more advanced than others. My state happens to have a homecare worker program. You can always advocate for social services then, for the MiCassa bill in congress sponsored by Senator Harkin. That would allow the money going to a nursing home to go to the individual so they could hire the services they need.
>
>Exactly how I feel. And, no I wouldn't want to live with a bunch of
>strangers paid to take care of me instead, as might happen under
>socialism. Therefore, I would rather not live because it isn't
>living to me and its especially not living if I can't think, feel
>emotions, or anything like that. If I have no chance of recuperating
>some semblance of consciousness, no i do not want to live. Nor do a
>lot of other people. It DOES NOT follow that they don't think others
>should choose a differnet path or even that they think those who do
>live that way have a life that's not worth living.
No one is stopping you from offing yourself. You have whipped yourself into a frenzy over nothing. What you have done is identified personally with Terri Shiavo's situation and project your own feelings. All you have to do is state CLEARLY what you would want under such a circumstance and make sure that your doctor and a close friend or lawyer gets a copy.
I don't care what you do with your life but I do know that people change their minds about what they want when they find themselves actually in a given situation. So I suggest, leave the door open.
>
>
>That is how I feel about being kept alive in Terry's condition. Shoot me.
Sounds like you would shoot yourself. Like I said go ahead at any time you get ready, no one is stopping you.
Marta
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