[lbo-talk] Shaivo finale on my part (for real)

[jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net]

> jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net wrote:> > 
> >  
> > [clip]
> > People can voluntarily take their own life for any fucking reason that suits them. If someone
> > wants to off themselves for a hangnail, while I might find that a rather ignorant decision, if
> > they're mentally capable of making that decision no one should be allowed to stop them. You
> > can try to talk them out of it but you shouldn't be able to forceably stop them.
> 
> While I disagree with Marta on the Shaivo case, the question of suicide
> is a bit more complex. _Ultimately_, a person set on suicide should not
> be stopped from carrying out that wish. BUT, there is (I think) a good
> deal of evidence that a large proportion of those who attempt suicide
> and are stopped are happy, later on, that they were stopped. One woman
> in our depressive support group has a hilarious story. About 15 years
> ago she stepped in front of a large van, which turned the corner before
> reaching her. That was 15 years ago -- and she has never attempted
> suicide since then. Kevorkian was (arguably) over-ready to agree that
> his clients were indeed willing.
> 
> On the other hand, the last words I ever heard from my father were "I
> wish I were dead." Those were, as it turned out, the last words he ever
> spoke to anyone -- after several more strokes that week he sank into a
> vegetative state, and 'lived' for three more years. That's what my
> mother wanted, but I'm quite sure it wasn't what he would have wanted.
> There's something to be said for Carolyn Heilbrun's idea (expressed in
> _The Last Gift of Time: Life Beyond Sixty_ (1997) that one should leave
> while the party's still fun.
> 
> Carrol

Which is why I wrote you should be allowed to try to talk them out of it. I almost wrote that we 
have a responsibility to try to talk them out of it but that seemed too strong a statement so I 
left it as is. I didn't want to seem too flippant either. I would recommend anyone thinking of 
suicide talk to their friends and family about the decision as well as a professional. It can't be 
undone later.
Most people who attempt suicide and are glad they failed are not mortally ill or incapacitated 
however. An otherwise healthy person who wishes to die will most probably get past whatever 
provoked that reason, terminally ill persons, generally speaking, will not.
One thing to remember is that people who try to commit suicide and fail but are unhappy they 
failed generally aren't around to tell you they are unhappy, They try and succeed later. Only 
those who are happy they failed will, in all probability, remain to tell you making that appear to 
be the likely outcome of a failed 1st suicide attempt when in fact it may not be.

John Thornton