If your goal is to have most people on the left simply write checks to the Democratic Party and liberal inside the beltway organizations, then keep using hyperbolic, abrasive, and innaccurate terms like fascist and zealot.
^^^^ Charles: If you want to reach people where I live, you have to use accurate political terms like "fascistic" and "zealots". In other words, "fascistic" and "zealot" are exactly the types of terms we should use because they are _not_ hyperbolic, they are objective and factually accurate terms. The situation is very dangerous. We must use a Paul Revere mode.
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If you goal is building a mass progressive movement for social change, then starting out by offending some 35% of the U.S. population by calling them stupid names is probably not a good idea.
-Chip Berlet
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CB: It's not calling them stupid names. It is developing an accurate poltical analysis of the level of danger we face from the current rightwing movement; and then developing agitation and propaganda to reach the masses of the working class, the majority of whom are not fascistic-zealots. I must repeat. "Fascistic" and "zealot" are precise terms in this context. The fascistic zealots are like the "party" members. "Militants" is another word for "zealots".
Our target group is not the core group of the rightwing, but rather the others who are not zealots. We have to characterize the core group in a way that the vast majority will not want to join them and will want to fight them.
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Carrol wrote:
A. Divide this up.
1. None of them will probably respond _now_ to any kind of approach (or even notice that 'we' are approahing them).
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Charles: The fascistic zealots are not our agitation and propaganda "targets". They are significantly lost causes. As you say "_in the future_". I would add a big "MAYBE". We should concentrate on other segments of the population. And we should mince our words on the hope of recruiting a few rightwingers in the future.
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2. Their leadership at various levels and niches will probably always be our enemies.
3. The section of the u.s. public Chip refers to can, loosely, be referred to as an internally varied mass movement. Hence:
a. The adherence of many to that 'movement' is very shallow. Hence they are a potential resource _in the future_.
b. Why endanger (even marginally) a potential resource through engaging in cheap sneers now.
^^^^ Charles: This is wrong. I am using "expensive" ,accurate terms. They are not sneers, but valuable vocabulary needed to rally the masses against the current danger.
To extent the zealots themselves might "hear" us, they need to hear the jarring words of the truth. "You all are becoming fascists; you know, like the enemy in good ole WWII." They need some political "shock therapy".
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Just what political advantage, now or in the future, has been achieved by the strenuous efforts of number on lbo-talk (and presumably elsewhere) to distinguish themselves from the great unwashed through sneers at Kansas, fundamentalists, etc. etc.?
Again, check the Third Thesis on Feuerbach.
^^^^^ Charles: They are not sneers. They are political analysis and rhetoric. The critique of the Third Thesis does not apply to "fascistic" or "zealot" because they are not terms referring to individual psychology. They are _political_ terms. Substitute "militant" for "zealot". Either one is good in U.S. vernacular today. Calling someone a zealot is not name calling in this case. We confine it to the active on the right.
By the way, speaking of the Theses on Feuerbach, examine Marx's political discussion, Engels and Lenin', for quite a bit of name calling , like "Philistine"
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Carrol
P.S. I think Chip's subject line is a bit askew. We can't "start organizing" NOW most of those he is talking about, but his arguments against empty (my added epither) labeling are rock solid.
^^^^^ Charles: Right, that's a big flaw in your arguments here. The militants of the rightwing are not the group you shape your rhetoric for. They are not our audience. We are speaking to another audience which audience we are warning against the growing fascist danger.