> > JF writes:>the problem with theists is that they can't see that their
> > idea of god actually undermines ethics<
> >
> > in 25 words or less, could you explain how the idea of god undermines ethics?
> > JD
>
> i didn't say the "the" idea of god undermines ethics, only that
> "their" idea of god undermines ethics.
>
> there is more than one way of coming at this, but the main one is: a
> religion wherein you have to behave a certain way out of fear of hell
> or hope of heaven actually undermines any notion that you do what is
> right because it is the right thing to do, rather than for a reward or
> to avoid punishment.* this is pretty much straight kant, except that i
> would say you don't have to buy into the whole kantian deontological
> ethics in order to accept and make use of this argument.