Rotating Bitch
>CB: Are these two struggles completely analogous in the way you imply ?
RB: If you disagree, please elaborate. I look forward to it, because it's an endlessly fascinating question, isn't it? We also try to elide the problem with these pansy-ass solutions and simpering little constructions where we claim there's no primacy to class analysis -- just to, on my view, placate the little bitches -- but there's really no seriousness in it. in the end, it's class all the way down and everything else exists on top of it like some false store front that tries to get your attention while still serving up the ugly frame house underneath.
but you're not like that, so I'd like to hear what you have to say.
^^^^^ CB: I think unity of working class women and men is a reason for working class men to stop male supremacy. However, I wasn't referring to that when I said happier women will mean happier men. I meant direct relationships between women and men will be better if women are happier in general, and happier relationships with women would be a big happy maker for men, in general. Of course, deep down, most men want happier relationships with women. ( I love you ,hon) So, this would be a good way to motivate men to give up supremacy.
CB:Even with the destruction of male supremacy , there will still be sexes.
RB: really? wow! I didn't know that. Why do you suppose it is that whenever you say such a thing to even leftist men who should know better, all they can imagine is i want to cut off their cocks and duct tape my rack into androgyny.
That, Charles my man, is a problem. Especially when
1. You've read me for about 7 years now. 2. I dropped numerous klews in the two sentences you quote above.
^^^^^^ CB:Ah , yes, seven years. Well, I can see you might think I thought that, but I didn't. The point was in relation to your identifying and analogizing capitalism and male supremacy. With communism, as you implied, classes will be abolished. There won't be anymore capitalists, but there won't be anymore workers either. We go to classless society. With the end of male supremacy, there won't be genders ( gender defined as male supremacy and female inferiority) but there will still be sexes. So, when you said
RB:>Do we win capitalists to our side by arguing that socialism will benefit capitalists? No, we argue for the destruction of capitalists and capitalism. Thus, we call for the destruction of Gender -- Men and Women as they exist in class society. BOTH Men and Women.
CB:"Men and women" is ambiguous. It can refer to gender or sex. But the point I'm suggesting is something is left over, but with classes nothing is left over.
So, the answer to my question
"Are these two struggles completely analogous in the way you imply ?"
is "no".
And to the main point, since "men" will still be around after the rev, best to persuade them to go along with the program; since capitalists won't still be around and are not needed to go along , they don't need to be persuaded. The two struggles are not completely analogous on this point.
Whaddaya think ?
^^^^^^^
CB:>Nothing wrong with appealing to altruism, but in this society probably have to appeal to self-interest too, if you want to succeed.
RB: do you appeal to capitalists' self interest? what happens when reform movements appeal to those self-interests?
CB: We don't need the capitalists ( all of them as a class; maybe a few will come over to our side) to make the socialist rev. So, we don't appeal to their capitalist self-interests in making the ultimate rev, though, as you mention, we appeal to some of their self-interests some in reform struggles (as in divide them).
I'm arguing here that _men_ feminists should appeal to other men on the basis of those men's self-interests in having happy relationships with women. Men's self-interests in having happy relationships with women is not aimed to be abolished in the rev, I'm thinking.
Important point I didn't specify last time is it's mainly on men feminists to make this appeal , not women, though, women would have to back it up big time :>)
^^^^^^^^
RB:Shit happens. That's what happens
CB: Yea, life will never be a bowl of cherries, even after the big change.
^^^^^^
As I mentioned, I was inspired by http://thagmano.blogspot.com, <http://thagmano.blogspot.com,/> specifically,http://thagmano.blogspot.com/2005/11/why-why-why-dont-we-get-it .html and http://thagmano.blogspot.com/2005/11/ok-now-youre-pissing-me-off.html
Now, bitch has some pixel pushin' to do
"You know how it is -- come for the animal porn, stay for the cultural analysis."
Bitch | Lab http://blog.pulpculture.org <http://blog.pulpculture.org/>