[lbo-talk] The over-leveraged consumer

Leigh Meyers leighcmeyers at gmail.com
Sat Oct 15 11:18:01 PDT 2005


On Saturday, October 15, 2005 10:27 AM [PDT], joanna <123hop at comcast.net> wrote:


> Willy Greenfields wrote:
>
>> Most troubling in all this is the reaction to treat
>> the over-leveraged consumer (i.e., the person who
>> along with all our foreign creditors is fueling what
>> little economic growth we've managed despite the
>> Bushites) as an irresponsible moral degenerate when
>> there are real structural reasons why people are
>> spending what (and how) they are.
>>
> Not sure what you mean by "structural." Greed is a human possibility,
> seriously pumped up by constant brainwashing/advertising urging us to
> consume even more -- is this what you mean?
>
> joanna
>

Willy: Irresponsible... and unethical, unless the ethic is "ME".

Morally... blank. Amoral.

Degenerate? As individuals? Or as a dominant culture?

I say "yes" on count# 2. Isn't it kind of obvious by now?


>> there are real structural reasons why people are
>> spending what (and how) they are.

It *what's* being bought... not how much. (Jesus *hates* you for driving an SUV, pass it on)

Joanna: We've been milked dry.... It's China's turn to get "greedy". (leverage their life & work for "stuff" they are told they need)

Here's U.S Treasury secretary John Snow's advice to the Chinese public

"...spend more, borrow more and save less."

China's savings rate is nearly 50 percent, one of the highest rates in the world. The savings rate in the United States, by contrast, has sunk to less than zero in recent months and is one of the lowest rates in the world. Here in this farming village of 36,000 inhabitants, the outdoor market was packed with about 250 vendors who showed Snow pork bellies, bean curd, spices and pastries. At Wang Ting Ting's appliance store, residents pay cash for glistening new Chinese-made washing machines, televisions, DVD players and stereos.

But that has not slowed Snow from lecturing China on the need for better financial "products" -- from credit cards for consumers to credit derivative swaps for hedge fund traders.

NY Times Courtesy of the San Francisco Chronicle:

Using credit in China, American-style U.S. Treasury chief urges "modernization" [Quotes added / lcm]

- Edmund L. Andrews, New York Times Friday, October 14, 2005

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/10/14/MNGC0F85KN1.DTL&type=printable

Mulan, China -- U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow, touring this village in the Sichuan province to promote "financial modernization," urged China to take lessons from the United States on how to spend more, borrow more and save less.

Snow also argued that China's consumers and entrepreneurs were badly in need of financial sophistication offered by American banks and investment banks.

As he wandered through a thriving farmers' market and a traditional rural credit cooperative Thursday, Snow said that with better credit, Chinese families would be able to spend more money, buy more goods and perhaps reduce China's huge trade surplus with the United States.

"We see consumerism and consumer credit as going directly to the thing we have most on our minds -- the global imbalances," Snow said.

It has been an awkward lecture at times, given that China's economy is still growing at a blistering pace of 9 percent, is a huge magnet for foreign investors and is one of the United States' biggest creditors.

China's savings rate is nearly 50 percent, one of the highest rates in the world. The savings rate in the United States, by contrast, has sunk to less than zero in recent months and is one of the lowest rates in the world. Here in this farming village of 36,000 inhabitants, the outdoor market was packed with about 250 vendors who showed Snow pork bellies, bean curd, spices and pastries. At Wang Ting Ting's appliance store, residents pay cash for glistening new Chinese-made washing machines, televisions, DVD players and stereos.

Leigh www.leighm.net

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