--- jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> On 4 Sep 2005 at 14:11, andie nachgeborenen wrote:
>
> > I know Chertoff slightly. I think he's being
> honest. I
> > doh't think he'd tell what he thought to be a lie
> if
> > prompted ina briefing. He was, among other
> things, a
> > (really good) US Attorney and a federal appellate
> > judge, two things that give one an allergy to bald
> > faced lying. jks
>
> I seriously doubt US Attorney's or fed appellate
> judges are, for some reason that is intrinsically
> linked to
> their job, less likely to lie than anyone else. What
> an elitist, and odd, position for you to take. I'm a
> bit
> surprised. I've been in Federal court and didn't
> notice any aversion to lying when I was there.
Witnesses lie like crazy. I've seen some lawyers do it -- not federal prosecutors. John Mage may have had a different experience. It may be my own experrience as a law clerk (sort of personal reserach assistant) to a number if federal judges, but I believe that the fedseral judicial job produces a bone-deep aversion to lying. Not universal -- there was Thomas & Hioll, but he hadn't been a judge very long. I know you will just think I have been brainwashed by my privileged position, but the judges I worked for word resign or die before they lied, and while they were all liberal (one a Republican), I don;'t think it's a political thing.
>
> How is it possible that he didn't know what every
> Corps. of Engineers employee and every Dept of
> Conservation in LA knew? How could he stand there
> claiming the forecast wasn't accurate enough when it
>
> was dead on perfect?
You obviously know nothing at all about bureaucracies and even less about federal bureaucracies. A cabinet member's files are filled with paper he can never read. The stuff he gets is fiosltered through his aides, who can never read all the struff in their files either. Even if you know there is a problem there are competing demands on your time and resources. You put stuff off and hope you will get to it someday. Thats' hwo it happens,
>
> If he isn't lying he is so far removed from reality
> he should probably be institutionalized. I don't
> claim to
> know if he's either a liar or a dilusional
> incompetent but he is certainly one or the other.
>
>
Every bureaucracy in the world works exactly like this, the biggerf the worse, and the federad DHS is a biggie. In this case run by someone without the relevant experience. As I said, I think Ridge, a governor, would have done better. But if you think that Chertiff is isnsane or delusional, you simply don't understand organizatioinal bewhvauior. My personal exoerience with him and my knowledge of his background tells me he's no liar.
A general rule: when faced with the alternative explanations of sheer fuckupery or active malice for any bad outcome, sheer fuckupery is the best bet 9 out of 10 times.
jks
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