[lbo-talk] Global warming 'past the point of no return'

Gar Lipow the.typo.boy at gmail.com
Sun Sep 18 12:53:36 PDT 2005


On 9/17/05, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
> We can't make capitalists stop being capitalists under capitalism. We
> can't have corporations not aim at profit-making under capitalism. We
> can't force corporations to turn over their whole surplus to the people,
> either through wages or taxes, under capitalism. St. Thomas
> (illustrating the limitations of divine power) said that He can't make a
> man an ass (donkey). We can't make capitalism be the empire of Kublai
> Khan or be socialism.
>
> And I am unable to imagine any scenario in which under the conditions of
> capitalist competition there could be a global plan globally enforced to
> eliminate the sources of global warming. And I know of no way of arguing
> against what I cannot even imagine happening. So I will leave it as a
> mere prediction -- the outcome of which won't be known during my
> lifetime. So neither you nor I will have the privilege of saying "I told
> you so" on this issue.
>
> Carrol

There may be a shorter term empirical question here. Given the will, I think eliminating the carbon emissions is technically easier that a lot of people think. I think there are techncial means for the rich nations to eliminate their emissions essentially zero dollar cost - though at the quite extensive poltical cost of a really increased public works budget, some tough efficiency regulations, and certain forms of revenue neutral green taxes. What prevents poor nations from doing something similar is lack of capital. But I can imagine a scenario where the entire poor nation debt (not just that of the poorest of the poor ) is forgiven and really massive aid given in return for reduced carbon emissions. The politics of that seems unlikely, but not unimaginable - a strong left movement in the rich world - not strong enough to win a revolution, but strong enough force major concessions from capitalism. So one last question and I'll leave you alone on the subject; is it simply that you can't imagine that the techical obstacles are as trivial as I'm saying, or that the concessions I mentioned seem so threatening to capital (to you) that you cannot imagine them ever being made under capital - that only a socialist revolution could carry them out - a strong left unable to win a successful revolution would (to you) be uable to extract these as concessions even from a weakened capitalist class that was still in charge.

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