I agree with Doug. Situation in the UK today is somewhat different from the US, because of the steadfast refusal of planning authorities to allow adequate building to meet current needs, providing some support for inflated prices. I still think that there's a bubble that is likely to burst. My opinion is re-enforced by the consensus of self-interested bank economists encouraging people to continue buying with the uniform assurance that anything more than tiny localised price falls are impossible. It's so very redolent of the tech analysts a few years ago. Investment considerations are paramount in buyers' minds. There is a widespread mentality that prices will only go up - or at worst stabilise. People are buying the most expensive house they can instead of getting a basic pension, for example, because they are confident of ever-rising house prices. It's a mentality that applies to people buying houses to live in as well as houses to rent out. The mortgage market is more competitive today, with mortgage brokers playing a much bigger role than in the 1990s. One result is that lenders are relatively relaxed about deposit levels, and about verification of income. Mortgage brokers and wannabe buyers then inflate their income on applications to buy property, in the hope that it will keep rising and that they will make money. Many of these people will struggle if the boom stalls. Basle II capital accord means will encourage further liquidity into the market. Whereas only a few people can trade futures on the margin, banks are allowing the masses to gear up and speculate on property. Another consequence of the mortgage market is that when people get into difficulty, they can re-mortgage over a longer period, or on an interest-only basis, quite easily. And people can easily sell their property, repay the lender and have some spare cash when prices are rising 20% a year. So record lows in mortgage arrears and reposessions hide the real picture. If prices fall even a little, lenders will start to tighten up lending criteria, and will be more aggressive in pursuit of arrears. From a low base, arrears and reposessions are likely to rise significantly, which will affect confidence in the market and increase the number of forced sales. Then there could be a sentimental turn against the market. I don't have the figures to hand, but if you look at income distribution and house price distribution in London then it seems that very few people will ever be able to afford to buy houses. Most bank economists commenting on the housing market rely too much on average incomes, which are distorted by all the bankers and lawyers at the top. I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I'm currently selling my apartment and moving to rented accommodation. Anyone have any good tips for where to put my capital? :-) --James James Greenstein --- Doug Henwood wrote: From: Doug Henwood Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:36:06 -0500 To: lbo-talk@lbo-talk.org Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] housing bubble? Jordan Hayes wrote: >I said there was (typically) no margin call. If you get stuck in a >limit down futures contract, you can get wiped out in ways that are >(again, typically) not possible with houses: you can't be forced to sell >your house _just because it's value goes down_ ... No, but if you've really stretched to buy the house on the joint assumptions that rates will stay low and prices will rise (and maybe that you'll keep your job) you may come to regret the decision. And the negative wealth effect from declining house values could be strong, just as the positive wealth effect of rising house prices has been over the last several years. Britain in the early 1990s offers a precedent. Doug ___________________________________ http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk