<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Nathan Newman wrote: <blockquote cite="mid17ae01c5ee1f$29c8a7a0$0200a8c0@DellComputer" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck0" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chuck@mutualaid.org"><chuck@mutualaid.org></a> Nathan Newman wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">What is "self-determination"? </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> -Having power over one's life, something that liberals will never trust -to the people. But remove US troops and individual Iraqis won't have control over their own lives. They'll just be stuck in the cross-hairs between suicde bombers, Shiite clerics and others using guns to deny them freedom-- with lots of outside interests manipulating the situation for their own purposes. </pre> </blockquote> And this is different from the fact on the ground now?  One strategy is to insist on an immediate pull out and a commitment from the USG to massive reparations to the Iraqi people to be delivered to the first popularly elected Iraqi government.  And nothing stops the US from attempting to covertly undermine those providing covert support to the different fractions in Iraq.  But the real politic of the situation is that the USG has no intention of leaving and no intention of supporting anyone who does not support their interests in the ME which has nothing whatsoever to do with democracy. Although it would be a nice veneer if they could get it but they are not going to insist on it.<br> </body> </html>