Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>
> On 4/29/06, ravi <gadfly at exitleft.org> wrote:
> > Do you also realize
> > that the rest of the world is a fucked up place with its share of brutal
> > thugs? If polls in Iraq can be believed at all, until recently, a
> > majority of *Iraqis* wanted continued U.S presence (IIRC), exactly to
> > handle the situation we (the U.S) had created.
>
> I never bought those polls, but let's assume the polls have been
> correct. Is there not a lesson to be learned from the Iraqis who have
> changed their minds?
(Aside: Like Michael H, I'm a bit skeptical of Yoshie's latest allegorical excursion, though I certainly agree with her condemnation of _any_ foreign interference in Iraq.)
We are citizens/residents of _THE_ nightmare which broods over human existence. Would anyone have paid attention to polls in the Netherlands in 1943 indicating that a large number of citizens there hoped there would be no invasion?
The U.S. _must_ be stopped, permanently, and all forms of u.s. power (including those exercised through 'allies') in the world abolished. It is very nearly criminal to disrupt the building of an anti-imperialist movement in the united states by prating of the u.s. doing _anything_ in Iraq but LEAVING, no qualificatins, no replacement with Syrian or Egyptian troops.
The task is how to build that movement; there is nothing to discuss about what the _aim_ of that movement should be, the smashing of u.s. imperialism.
There are tactical considerations. I do not attack, or even murmur at, members of the local anti-war group who take positions similar to those expressed here by ravi & Andy F. The tactical principle that applies is simply to unite all that can be united around the slogan of "Out Now." And I am perfectly aware that many who accept that slogan in practice have the kind of thoughts that Andy and ravi have expressed here. Slow changing of that understanding is part of the greater struggle.
But lbo-talk is not an organizing framework, and discussion here belongs to the realm of theory and principle. And at that level _any_ wavering concerning absolute opposition to all military action by the u.s., anywhere, for any reason, is saddening. In practice, to suggest that other nations (or the UN) replace u.s. troops in Iraq is to suggest that the U.S. aggression continue in all its horror but under disguise. Fewer u.s. casualties, greater horror in Iraq and elsewhere in the Mideast.
Carrol
Carrol
Carrol