[lbo-talk] On Islamic radicalism and the left by Don Hamerquist

Yoshie Furuhashi critical.montages at gmail.com
Thu Aug 17 12:47:36 PDT 2006


On 8/17/06, Bryan Atinsky <bryan at alt-info.org> wrote:
> Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
> >
> > In principle, we have to accept other peoples' choices even when those
> > aren't choices we make for ourselves, unless they make war on us or
> > exterminate an ethnic group or do both, a la fascists: e.g., the
> > Palestinian people voted for Hamas this January, so others --
> > including all Israelis -- should have accepted that choice, rather
> > than organizing economic boycotts of it, kidnapping elected Hamas
> > leaders, destroying Gaza again, and so on.
>
> You know, I agree with you here in practice, but not in principal. What
> does it mean to respect an other's choices in a democratic election?
> First, I think that there must be a differentiation between those
> internal to a polity and those external to it. Also, I think that there
> can be a false idealization of the results of an election (or even more
> so a revolution) as "the choice of the people." Also, I think that while
> on some level there needs to be a recognition, that, whatever the
> social, economic and political constraints on the outcome of any
> decision making process, some form of collective selection took place,
> but how far should we incorporate it into our understanding of and
> behavior towards that entity?

My principle is only a general one. By respecting other peoples' choices, I don't necessarily mean elections, though elections can be democratic mechanisms to determine the will of the people if they are not overwhelmed by money and other undemocratic means. Sometimes, we have to respect the choices other peoples make through non-electoral means, including but not limited to social revolutions. IMHO, the principle merely helps those of us who don't live in a given country under discussion remember that we aren't the ones who can make choices for the people of that country (leftists in the West often forget this simple fact).


> I doubt you would argue that one shouldn't sanction or boycott Israel,
> because you have to accept the decision of the Israeli electorate in its
> selection of the Olmert/Peres/Peretz Trinity.

I would not favor the international sanctions of the sort that would actually result in what happened to the Iraqi people -- not even people who enthusiastically voted for Olmert deserve that. Thankfully, such draconian sanctions are neither necessary nor even likely. As far as I'm concerned, the campaigns to boycott and divest from Israel at this point have mainly educational virtues, e.g., to get political debates going. Such campaigns, in my view, should aim not so much to have real economic impacts on Israel as shift the political opinion primarily here in the USA and secondarily in Israel (Tel Aviv wouldn't behave as it does without Washington's support).

Moreover, my view of the efficacy of boycott and divestment campaigns would change greatly if Jewish Israeli leftists such as yourself, as well as Palestinian citizens of Israel and Palestinians in the OPTs, weren't also supporting them (though they don't appear to have managed to agree on the correct scope of such campaigns among themselves yet).

Putting Jewish Israeli leftists, Palestinian citizens of Israel, and Palestinians in the OPTs together makes the real majority in historic Palestine.

On 8/17/06, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote:
> Yoshie's quick to point out the low participation rates in US
> elections whenever someone argues that Americans have more or less
> chosen their rulers. Hamas got about 45% of the popular vote, less
> than George W did in 2000 and 2004.

It seems to me that there were good enough grounds to contest the legitimacy of the 2000 (and even 2004) elections, even just based on the principles of capitalist democracy, but what we lack in the USA is an opposition party and presidential candidate willing to contest flawed elections. Gore and Kerry are no AMLO. We should import more Mexicans -- and their Mexican politics -- to invigorate political culture here.

Truth be told, Palestinian voters, despite the interferences from Tel Aviv (e.g., making it difficult for candidates to campaign and for voters to vote) and Washington (e.g., pouring money into the Mahmoud Abbas faction), had more choices and more democratic elections than here in the USA: look at the wide variety of choices in Palestine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_election>! -- Yoshie <http://montages.blogspot.com/> <http://mrzine.org> <http://monthlyreview.org/>



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