--- Jerry Monaco <monacojerry at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/26/06, Brian Charles Dauth
> <magcomm at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The cult was not hypothetical.
> >
> > But what leads you to imagine that the sexual
> practices
> > of a small cult are comparable to the reality of
> the lives
> > of queer men and women around the world?
>
>
> The Bacchic cult was not small either, and it was
> not a "cult" by our
> standards. Their sexual practices were both
> heterosexual and homosexual and
> they were persecuted for much the same reasons
> homosexuals were persecuted
> today. But why quibble?
>
> The fact is that while your government commits
> atrocities and while your
> money is used to kill people, you instead focus on
> the "crimes" of others,
> the same "crimes" that your government uses to
> justify its crimes. So
> whether you like it or not your voice -- helps to
> justify the crimes that we
> commit in order to oppose the crimes that you don't
> commit. Your first
> responsibility is to stop the crimes that you
> commit, or your government
> commits, then maybe you can begin to think about the
> crimes committed by
> your neighbor, or some government overseas.
>
> But apparently you are unable to comprehend that our
> crimes are our
> responsibility mainly because the way to stop them
> would be to actually do
> something effective to stop them. As I said that is
> the basic moral
> question, only a little complicated by political
> realities, such as that
> your government happens to be in Washington and not
> in Havana and that your
> government, our, government happens to be the most
> violent in the world.
> And as I said we are in the same moral position of
> the hypothetical Roman.
> Only it is starker, because we potentially have more
> influence over our
> government than she had over hers. So actually our
> responsibility is
> greater.
>
> Most else of what your write is irrelevant, no
> matter how hard that is to
> hear.
>
>
> But I do want to say a few more things....
>
>
>
>
> > As a non-queer you may believe this.
>
>
> You know nothing about my sexual orientation, my
> sexual past, my desires, or
> who I have had oral or anal sex with. It is
> completely irrelevant to the
> conversation.
>
>
>
> > What is
> > hypocritical is to possess non-queer privilege and
> remain silent when
> > queer oppression occurs so as to maintain your
> privileged status.
> >
> > > I set my hypothetical in ancient Rome because I
> thought the
> > distance would abstract the situation from current
> ideological
> > confusions.
> >
> > You failed.
>
>
> You are correct. I failed because the moral question
> has been covered over
> by the usual ideological apprehensions.
>
>
>
> > It may well be the first responsibility, but is it
> the only one?
> >
> > > Unless we can understand our own
> responsibilities and for whom
> > and for what we are responsible, it is no use
> taking on the useless
> > and empty burden of criticizing some foreign
> government whose
> > people we are attacking.
> >
> > Why do you see opposing and speaking against queer
> > persecution as useless and empty?
> >
> > Brian
> >
>
> You a United Statsian, residing here in the United
> States are speaking out
> against queer persecution in a country that the U.S.
> is attacking, and has
> committed acts of terror against decade after
> decade, and will continue to
> commit acts of terror against in the near future.
>
> You are speaking up against a government you can
> only have control over, if
> your government increases its violence against Cuba.
>
> Your government, our government, has been in more or
> less permanent war
> mobilization against the Cuban government since its
> inception. And you as a
> United Statesian, here in the U.S., talk to people
> who may oppose or may
> support that war mobilization; while you as a United
> Statsian also watch
> your country commit other atrocities around the
> world, day in and day out;
> and without stopping the exceedingly more massive
> atrocities of your
> government, you complain about the oppressive
> policies of a regime and a
> people that your government is waging war against
> and committing atrocities
> against.
>
> It is irrelevant whether, here in the United States,
> you speak out against
> atrocities committed by other people not ourselves
> "over there", anywhere
> "over there", while your government is continuing to
> attack the people "over
> there", where-ever "over there" is! By doing so you
> are not helping the
> people "over there," who ever they are, you are only
> supplying ideological
> cover and pharasitical moral soothing for our
> crimes.
>
> I am sorry Brian that you don't understand this.
>
> Jerry Monaco
> > ___________________________________
>
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