[lbo-talk] Re: Iran and the Left in a Moral Snare

[Seth Kulick]

> 
> -In any case, I'm not particularly fond of nationalism of any kind, so
> -appeal to other nationalisms as a justification for Israel's (a
> -problematic concept in itself, as Seth Kulick just pointed out) won't
> -cut much ice with me.
> 
> And I have no problem with the left advocating the global abolition of 
> nationalisms and borders of all kind.    But when you pick out any 
> particular nationalism as deserving special attack, then the issue is raised 
> whether it's nationalism or the particular group involved that's being 
> attacked.  You may not like nationalism, but many of the countries who voted 
> for Zionism=Racism are quite fond of their own nationalisms.  So the 
> anti-semitism of the attack on Jewish nationalism is pretty evident to me. 
> To repeat, that doesn't mean that the actions of the Israeli state don't 
> deserve global condemnation, but the attack should be on that, not some 
> particularized denigration of one peoples right to assert their national 
> identity.

If you're talking about the countries condemning Zionism as a form of 
racism, I agree.  It is Israeli policy, not Zionism as some sort
of philosophy or whatever, which should be condemned, and obviously many of 
the countries doing so are hypocrites.  

But that is a different question than what the left in different countries
should do.  Why should the left in the US be spending time pointing out 
discriminatory practices in e.g. Saudi Arabia?  Is there any sort of 
disagreement about that? And I don't think we should be criticizing a 
"particular nationalism", but the discriminatory practices of a state, 
especially where we are the ones making such practices possible.  
I don't think that critizing Israeli policies is criticizing a "particular
nationalism".

I don't think it's on the web, but many years ago Stephen Shalom had a really
good review in New Politics of Michael Lerner's "The Socialism of Fools"
going over many of the issues in this exchange.