[lbo-talk] from growth to quality of life

Jim Devine jdevine03 at gmail.com
Fri Feb 10 15:30:45 PST 2006


Nathan: >the push for growth in the world doesn't just come from capitalism but from both desires of people for many of these new goods (I personally like my IPod and laptop and don't think that's about consumer fetishism) and from the more dramatic needs of the world's poor who actually could use some basic quantitative expansion of various goods. <

it's true that the demand for any specific product depends on people's desires (when those desires are backed up by purchasing power). But overall growth in our society depends on capitalist accumulation, which encourages the polarization of the world into a small number of the rich and a growing number of poor. The exception would be the case where there is a large enough mass movement to tame capitalism for awhile, as with social democracy in W. Europe for a few decades after WW2. Of course, that was temporary, since capitalist itself wasn't abolished.

liking IPods has nothing to do with "commodity fetishism" (at least as old Karlos defined it). CF refers to not seeing the totality (forest) of the system of capitalist social relations because of being blinded by the trees of individuals commodity relations, prices, and markets.


> Obviously, the form of the planning to get that growth could be and should be improved, but the idea that socialism gets us completely out of problems of democratic demands for growth seems unconvincing. I suppose "growth" can be redefined as all its purely negative aspects, but that seems not particularly useful.<

As I said before, people need to be clear about what they mean by "growth." -- Jim Devine

Bust Big Brother Bush!

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