[lbo-talk] Lee's Garage

Bill Bartlett billbartlett at dodo.com.au
Sat Feb 18 19:09:08 PST 2006


At 9:24 PM -0500 18/2/06, Marvin Gandall wrote:


>As to the rest, if this large and rapidly growing cohort is considered part
>of the bourgeoisie, petit or otherwise, rather than of the working class, it
>makes a hash out of Marx, who forecast the growth of the working class at
>the expense of self-employed artisans, farmers, and other nominally
>independent producers. In this respect, at least, Marx has been solidly
>vindicated by the movement of history. It would conflict with our
>understanding of the labour relations sytems of capitalist states: they
>also, for the most part (the US is again exceptional here) regard these
>personnel to be workers and grant them collective bargaining rights - which
>you would have to regard as either extraordinarily charitable or stupid or
>both since Bill Bartlett is convinced these workers are really part of the
>employing class.

Who is this namesake of mine that holds these middle managers to be part of the employing class? He is a damn fool if you ask me. Although that is probably clear what what I written previously, I thought I'd better emphasise it. In case anyone should confuse my view with that if this other Bill bartlett.


>Of course, the working class, broadly speaking, is highly stratified in
>terms of skills and status and income and divided internally along regional,
>gender, racial, and other lines. This results in a wide variety of
>"contradictory" forms of consciousness, and it stands to reason that the
>higher you travel up the heirarchy, the more conflicted the self-identity
>and loyalty of the employees, especially the newer layers with
>post-secondary education and those with supervisory responsibilities.

That is well put.


> I
>don't think describing them as having a "petit bourgeois" consciousness is
>especially useful because it is apt to mislead people like Bill Bartlett,

Which Bill Bartlett? I'm confused. ;-)


>but, discounting for this, what Doug, drawing on Olin Wright, was getting at
>is correct. But it doesn't change their "class location", and I didn't read
>him as suggesting that.

Change their *what*?

Bill Bartlett Bracknell Tas



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