>
> I am not sure about this country, but many Europeans
> would and do. Polls In Europe consistently show
> customer willingness to give up some of their consumer
> choices to advance a public good, from saving the
> environment to supporting striking workers. Consumer
> boycotts of targeted products deemed environmentally
> unsafe forced many corporations to change their
> practices.
A small percentage in the US, not enough to make any meaningful cultural changes leading to labor - environmental ones... But what choices?
A Prius made from plastic? Americans seem self-satisfied with zero-sum economics.
>
> As for myself, I have sacrified many of my "consumer
> choices" - from refusing to buy certain products, to
> not crossing picket lines, to using public transit, to
> living in a cooperative, to giving decent tips to
> waiters (which is tantamout to paying decent wages out
> my pocket).
>
> Now, if labor struggles do not seem to elict the same
> level solidarity responses as environmental causes in
> this country, it is mainly becuse labor generally does
> not do a very good job in popularizing its causes.
> Using inflammatory yet groundless hyperboles a la
> "mining murder" certainly does not help.
But it IS murder.... negligent homicide. Ask one of those W Va miners to define hyperbole. A certain percentage will know, but they ALL Know what negligent homicide is. It's been a LOoooog time since a large corporation or it's officers has been charged (within the continental US) with wilfull negligence leading to the death of an employee.
That honor has been reserved for the 'little guy' businesses.
Maybe it's time to start calling the 'Big Spade' a spade, too?
>
> I think we've discussed that issue in connection with
> the NYC transit strike, and there was a general
> agreement that labor did not do a very good job in
> trying to win "hearts and minds" of the general
> public. I think that this is true of most
> labor-related issues.
The bus drivers in Santa Cruz had major support from the local residents... as a matter of fact, most of the complaints about the strike came from people who never used the bus. Pitifully hilarious, and obvious.
>
> So if you see people sympathizing with the plight of-
> and giving up their consumer choices to protect, say,
> the spotted owl, but not doing much to rally for the
> improvement of working conditions in many occupations
> - it is mainly because environmental groups do a much
> better PR job than labor, organized or otherwise. In
> fact, the labor takes either the individualist "fuck
> the unions" "I want to make money for myself" or - if
> it organized - it it sees itself mainly as a wage
> cartel and a junior partner of the industry rather
> than a part of the civil society. And neither of
> these attitudes are likely to win the hearts and minds
> of the public.
>
I agree. part of the problem, as I see it in California's labor pool, is the tendency to think that unions take the dues and get you something resemblling a living wage, at least with the teamsters, who I could tell a few horror stories about when employees got hurt on the job and were left hanging by the union when it became lawsuit time.
>
>
>>
>> (Is that *Socialist* enough for you Wojtek?
>
> I do not mean to sound offensive but your remark seem
> flippant - unless you really don't get it. So let me
> repeat it once more.
Flippant, concise... what's in a word...
>
> I find anti-government attitudes to be a core part of
> the US populism and anti-intellectualism, which in
> turn forms the basis for the right wing ideology and
> discourse that dominates this country. Every wing nut
> bitches about the gummint' and its "burden on people's
> backs", the UN the world government, etc, and
> proclaims to defend the right of "da people" (usually
> the people like me, the white people, the black
> people, the male people, the middle class people,
> etc.).
An anti-government attitude isn't neccesarily political at all. I find intellectualism to be diversionary, but hey!, someone has to do the thinking while miners die and truckers drive so many hours (or lose their job to someone who will) that they drive it off the road. Intellectual work is easy...
You only drive your mind off the road, where the forest can't be seen for the trees.
>
> Therefore, anyone who simply complains about
> government and expresses populist sympathies is simply
> unindistinguishable from the mob of ditto heads,
> neo-cons, libertarians, militias, white supremacists,
> black supremacists, right wing populists, etc. Some
> of those people may or may not be socialists in their
> hearts, but it is impossible to tell based solely on
> expressing the above sentiments.
Populism, that's closer to the bone, and usually requires a charismatic demogogue like GWB. He IS representative of right-populist poiltics in America today, closer to dittohead culture than neo-nazi/white supremacist (like Cheney)
>
> Likewise, someone who complains about capitalist
> excesses giving mostly Jewish bankers and landlords as
> examples is merely a closet anti-semite rather than a
> socialist.
>
I always try to get people to name another "Jewish banker" besides the buzz-name "Rothchild" and I've yet to meet anyone who can, albeit there MUST be at least ONE more. ;'>
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