> Sorry to intervene, but how about a classless governement, a class
based
> government being the essence of a State?
>
> I always liked this take:
>
> Socialism will be a society in which the things we need to live, work
and
> control our own lives--the industries, services and natural
resources--are
> collectively owned by all the people, and in which the democratic
organization
> of the people within the industries and services is the government.
Socialism
> means that government of the people, for the people and by the people
will
> become a reality for the first time.
>
boddi replied:
This sounds like a state to me - and an extensive one.
************
Mike B)
I go along with Marx on the conceptual definition of the State i.e. that it is
the political expression of class rule, a government where one class rules and
other classes in the society are ruled. Marx and Engels used the conceptual
terms "socialism" and "communism" to mean a modern classless society. A
"dictatorship of the proletariat" would be a State, where the working class
ruled other classes within a political-economy over a period of time, a
transitional period which would end, "die out" in socialism/communism, i.e. a
classless society, where the governing strutures would not be meant to rule
people but to administer things like the production and distribution of goods
and services.
****************
boddi:
The question is how to facilitate the practical, real communication between
producers and consumers. Without a financial system, how do you do that?
********** Mike B) The measurement of the use of goods and services can be done in many ways other than through purely financial means and probably using less labour time. For example, the associated producers could measure how much was being taken from the social store of goods and services and then, self-manage the necessary increase or decrease in production levels. But, there are now and will be in future, many, many people smarter than me who will be able to set up ways to co-ordinate production/consumption levels, to create an efficient "administration of things" in a communist society.
Best, Mike B)
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