[lbo-talk] Unproductive Workers = The Best Organized in the USA

Jim Devine jdevine03 at gmail.com
Sun Jan 22 09:29:09 PST 2006


--- Marvin Gandall wrote:
>>As I understand it, that you need a state to referee conflicts
between competing capitalist interests and to provide the class as a whole with the profit-maximizing resources it can't or won't provide for itself, needs typically expressed through its trade and political organizations. <<

On 1/21/06, Wojtek Sokolowski wrote:
>So there is no state without bourgeoisie? And where exactly can one
find such a place? Perhaps Somalia? No functioning government, plenty of guns, warlords and gangs running things - in a word - gummint' haters' heaven. <

I can't speak for Marv, but I believe you're taking what he said out of context. He was talking about US-type societies (rich, fully-capitalist, countries), as far as I can tell. In Marxian theory, the state is needed to maintain class dominance and exploitation. Without it, you get Hobbesian chaos, as perhaps in Somalia.

Marxian theory does not advocate abolishing the state (unlike the anarchist view) as much as subordinating it to the democratic control of the vast majority.


>Actually, after reading what seemingly intelligent people on this
list have to say about the state - am glad that the US left does not even come close to the halls of power. If you guys had your way with the state, this country would be like Somalia or Liberia - run by warlords and swapmed with savage violence beyond imagination.<

I am glad that you can make yourself happy by throwing out gratuitous insults. Too bad it has to be in public.


>Anyone who thinks that the sole role of the state is to manage things
for the "bouurgeoisie" (who is that exactly, anyway?) is either kidding or cluless. I suggest taking Poli Sci 101 at a local community college for a starter. <

If you don't know what the "bourgeoisie" is, you should read a few books. -- Jim Devine

"The price one pays for pursuing any profession or calling is an intimate knowledge of its ugly side." -- James Baldwin

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