[lbo-talk] Social Democracy vs Marxism

Bill Bartlett billbartlett at dodo.com.au
Wed Jul 26 22:19:26 PDT 2006


At 3:04 PM -0400 26/7/06, Wojtek Sokolowski wrote:


>To sum thing sup, I do not believe that the problem of optimal surplus
>production and distribution will be solved once and for all by a millenary
>event called socialist revolution.

That isn't the point of socialism, socialism is about distribution. You just don't get it at all, I'll try to simplify. Under capitalism, goods and services are created and distributed for profit, rather than to meet the needs of people. This involves relying on some kind of market force to regulate production, rather than producing enough to meet all needs.

It stands out like a dog's dick that market regulation means that needs can never be fully satisfied since a saturated market depresses prices and in a profit motivated production system that then leads to cuts in production. This is fine, in a context where the means of production is materially incapable of fully meeting needs anyhow. It provides an incentive to find ways to increase production, which is in the best interests of everyone in the long term.

But markets and profit driven production are fundamentally incapable of operating in the best interests of all all people in a context of the means of production which has excess capacity.

This is all obvious and inarguable. Perhaps you don't understand, but I doubt that. You don't strike me a stupid.


> It will be solved by institutional
>changes and reforms that may take long time, but I hope will eventually
>happen.

Gibberish. It can only be solved by socialism. In the meantime the corpse of the profit driven market system of production can only be kept breathing by artificial life-support which is massively anti-social. The machinery of production must be artificially crippled to keep production level low enough to maintain an artificial shortage of goods and services. Or regularly destroyed by warfare.

But you just go on pretending that capitalism could survive without this artificial life-support if that makes you feel better. But socialism isn't about revolutionising the means of production, capitalism has done that. Capitalism is about solving the next problem, how to distribute the products and services that a market system can no longer distribute efficiently because increased productive capacity has saturated markets.

If you don't know the first thing about what socialism is, then talk about something else.

Bill Bartlett Bracknell Tas



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