[lbo-talk] A Day When Mahdi Army Showed Its Other Side

Marvin Gandall marvgandall at videotron.ca
Tue Nov 28 16:01:03 PST 2006


Wojtek wrote:


> [WS:] I think this is where we disagree - I do not particularly care for
> national self- determination. For me, internationalism or socialism
> (which
> is a form of internationalism) trumps national self-determination.
> Moreover, I find nationalism of _any_ kind quite detestable. I am an
> open-borders or rather no-borders person.

Nor am I a nationalist or a religious person. But I support the right of others to practice religion and the right of nations to govern themselves free of outside interference. There is no contradiction here. ==========================
>>From that standpoint, I do not oppose military interventions in principle,
> but only if they are antithetical to the principles I hold dear (e.g.
> internationalism, or socialism.) A military intervention against a
> murderous fascist regime is probably a good thing...

Except who defines which is a "murderous fascist regime"? US administrations use the term or some variant of it to justify action against regimes they dislike, while ignoring its more appropriate application when it suits their interests to do so. It would, for example, embrace the description of Lebanon's Hassan Nasrallah as a "fascist", while vigorously disputing that Israel's Avigdor Lieberman was one. Insistent demands for semantic precision emanating from Johns Hopkins and other universities wouldn't carry much weight. ==============================
> Of course this is a general principle. In real life, we need to make
> judgments based on the particularities of the situation on the ground. I
> am
> against the invasion of Iraq mainly because it was ill conceived, carried
> out under false pretenses, and aimed to achieve murky political ends which
> are still not clear. I would not oppose it, however, if it was better
> planned and succeeded in establishing genuine democracy.
================================ I wouldn't oppose it either if an invasion force "established genuine democracy", which by definition meant it met with the consent of those it intended to help and subjected itself to their will. But we live on earth rather than in heaven, as Iraq has again demonstrated. However, if you continue to oppose these kinds of aggressions because they disappoint your hopes for progressive change, I won't quibble about the grounds.



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