[lbo-talk] science, objectivity, truth, taste and tolerance

Dwayne Monroe idoru345 at yahoo.com
Mon Oct 2 17:02:51 PDT 2006


Ravi:

There are a billion such stories. And they all end the same way. Under-appreciated and under-valued. There are forces that rob these stories of their value, rob these humans of their significance, enable us to not just treat them with disrespect and dismissal, but as irrelevant. This would be palatable if it were at least true that their contributions could be replaced with the alternatives. But the alternatives do not truly fulfil that function. All they do is provide the tools and most important the attitude to tear these things down, and tear down the things (tolerance, kindness, and so on) that nurture a community that contains and produces them.

...........................

Is it 'scientism' that under-values these contributions or, fundamentally, the tendency for some (most?) human societies to be organized for the benefit of elites?

Imperial Rome was a pre-scientific civilization (lots of engineering and ad hoc science but nothing approaching the habits of thought we now employ); there were elites who thought their joys, sorrows and thoughts were sublime and considered the masses to be a bother.

Scientific elitism and what Jacques Ellul described as the elevation of "technique" weren't even a shadow of a dream but the very sort of under-valuing you're decrying was rampant.

Perhaps it isn't 'scientism' you should be dissecting - 'scientism' might only be a shiny new set of clothes for a tired old bastard who never leaves us alone.

...

You asked, by way of an example of science and non-science, about the difference between astrology and astronomy. How do we know which is true and which false?

I'm sure it's easy to tie yourself into knots about it (if that sort of thing is your bag baby) but I like to keep things as direct as a bullet on course to its target. Astrologers tell me that Jupiter's movement, among other factors, (if Jupiter is one of the planets in my personal chart) will influence my circumstances.

There's a very complex system for getting at astrological "truth".

But at the end of all that effort I'm not sure what I know about nature or my situation. Actually, that's a dishonest sentence - I do know what I've learned after all that effort: nothing.

Astronomers, on the other hand, tell me that Jupiter is a gas giant planet, a rock shrouded beneath a massive atmosphere of metallic and liquid hydrogen. They've been able to assist in sending wee bots to the mighty planet. The bots have helped us learn even more.

Now, I think you're arguing that the astrological explanation (again, taken only as an example of non-scientific activity) shouldn't be de-valued because it's part of what ordinary folk do. And if by that you mean, simply, people shouldn't be rude (for example, astronomers throwing "Astrologers Suck!" beer bashes) I agree.

But if you're saying that we should re-consider the way astrology - and other practices considered foreign to the the scientific endeavor - were tossed out of the inner circle of what's officially considered truth than I'll have to disagree in the strongest terms.

Ravi, I'm sure you're sincere in your pursuit of this question but I'm wondering what your ideal state is. That is to say, what sort of world do you dream of when you dream of the end of the 'scientism' rainbow?

.d.

How should you approach life? Like a samurai, ready for death at any time.

Pater Monroe, 1978 ...................... http://monroelab.net/blog/



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